The Tribulation Is Now: Why Isn’t The Body Of Christ Ready?

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**Warning you might be offended, But at least listen with an open mind and search the scriptures for yourself, the scriptures, not the dictionary or man’s interpretation.  That’s what the Holy Spirit is for, to guide you into truth.******
 As I awoke this morning, and was having my coffee and time with God on the patio as always, God gave this thought to me.  I immediately thought of my family that is not prepared.  It broke my heart.  There is much tribulation coming, and yes even wrath.  And yes I know that the Bible say’s we are not appointed to wrath, but it also tells in many places in the old testament and in Revelation, that God sends His judgments to those without the Mark of God.  Many, many Christians believe that the wrath of God is not for them, how could it be?  We were promised that we are special and will not have to endure tribulation or wrath.  Let’s just go back to sleep and we will wake up during the secret coming of our Lord to catch us up so we won’t see any of that gorey, icky Stuff!
Ezekiel 14:12-14

King James Version (KJV)

12 The word of the Lord came again to me, saying,

13 Son of man, when the land sinneth against me by trespassing grievously, then will I stretch out mine hand upon it, and will break the staff of the bread thereof, and will send famine upon it, and will cut off man and beast from it:

14 Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord God.

I encourage you to read this whole chapter of Ezekiel.  I encourage you to read the chapters in the Bible about the ‘Day of the Lord.’  It will be a dark day, a day that falls on the entire earth.  I am to the point that I really don’t care if you believe what I say.  What I say is Biblical.  God is warning His people to get ready.  He is trying to light a fire under His church, to speak out, wake up and get ready.  It will catch them all like a thief who comes in the middle of the night.  I pray daily for my family who are not ready spiritually for what’s coming.  There will be no second chances.  One of the greatest deceptions of the ‘Secret Rapture’ is that there will be a 7 year period of second chances, and you can come to God then.  That is THE GREAT DECEPTION.  And it is put forth by satan himself.


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What a dis-service we are doing to those converting to Christianity from the muslim faith.  They are risking death to come to Christ.  Many are killed every minute!  They are killed because of their belief in Christ.  We are telling them, we don’t care about you, you don’t exist, because the true body of Christ will be secretly taken away and we won’t see that.

I don’t care that some think my words are not edifying.  There is no time for pretty flowery words.  There is no time for me to say oh, it’s all right, we will just agree not to agree.  HELLO!  There is so much destruction and tribulation coming and your worried about that?    

I don’t care if you wish to twist the scripture.  The Bible is the inerrant word of God!  God would not speak in confusion, Satan does that and he does it quite well.  God gave His word to His prophets, and by twisting, and using man’s standards to interpret this word, we are worshiping Idols not God!

We need to come together and try to witness while there is still day, for night is coming.  This bickering about what a comma, or what the word thee or thou means has got to stop.  And it has to stop now.  The church is dead in the water.  That’s right, you heard me right.  They are calling evil good and good evil, and are preaching to worry about your riches and your blessings and forget about that big old ugly storm cloud on the horizon.  It’s not going to get you, your special. 

Well the Apostles were all killed for their faith.  All except John, and he died a natural death.  But he was boiled in oil, tortured, jailed and put on a deserted Island to toil and be tortured under the Romans. 

The Christians during WW2 suffered too!  They were mocked and asked ‘Where is your God, where is this secret coming that has not happened?’  I’m surprised we even had Christianity after WW2 and the tribulation there.  If you don’t believe me search out Corrie Tenboom and discover her testimony.  The Body of Christ will witness this evil kingdom taking over the world and if your not prepared spiritually you will fall.  Simple.

One thing we can all agree on is He is Coming and He’s coming soon!  Get ready!  What does it hurt to prepare and acknowledge our Brother’s and Sister’s enduring this tribulation now!?  To them I say what Paul said, Fight the good fight, finish the race.  And Jesus promised that the overcomer would inherit a seat with Him on His throne.  Get ready He is coming!

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Categories: Commentary by CJ, news, Prophecy

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118 replies

  1. Stevie…………..We are so thankful you are inspired by coming to this website. If we help even just one then we have accomplished what we are trying to do. One person at a time. God Bless You.


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  3. The Blind Men and the Elephant
    John Godfrey Saxe (1816-1887)

    It was six men of Indostan
    To learning much inclined,
    Who went to see the Elephant
    (Though all of them were blind),
    That each by observation
    Might satisfy his mind.

    The First approached the Elephant,
    And happening to fall
    Against his broad and sturdy side,
    At once began to bawl:
    “God bless me! but the Elephant
    Is very like a WALL!”
    The Second, feeling of the tusk,
    Cried, “Ho, what have we here,
    So very round and smooth and sharp?
    To me ’tis mighty clear
    This wonder of an Elephant
    Is very like a SPEAR!”

    The Third approached the animal,
    And happening to take
    The squirming trunk within his hands,
    Thus boldly up and spake:
    “I see,” quoth he, “the Elephant
    Is very like a SNAKE!”

    The Fourth reached out an eager hand,
    And felt about the knee
    “What most this wondrous beast is like
    Is mighty plain,” quoth he:
    “‘Tis clear enough the Elephant
    Is very like a TREE!”

    The Fifth, who chanced to touch the ear,
    Said: “E’en the blindest man
    Can tell what this resembles most;
    Deny the fact who can,
    This marvel of an Elephant
    Is very like a FAN!”

    The Sixth no sooner had begun
    About the beast to grope,
    Than seizing on the swinging tail
    That fell within his scope,
    “I see,” quoth he, “the Elephant
    Is very like a ROPE!”

    And so these men of Indostan
    Disputed loud and long,
    Each in his own opinion
    Exceeding stiff and strong,
    Though each was partly in the right,
    And all were in the wrong!


    Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind: cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth, each according to its kind”; and it was so.

    And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
    Genesis 1:24-25


    • We are not ignorant if we study the Word in it’s fulness. Of course, if we don’t study to show ourselves a workman rightly dividing the Word of Truth, we will come up with wild ideas that have a lot of loose ends.

      This is how some come up with the idea that R7:9, when speaks of a multitude that is clothed in white robes.these are raptured individuals. It does plainly say that they came out of the tribulation. The mystery is how did they come out death or rapture. This mystery is solvable, because it says these individuals are clothed in white. Scripture speaks of who is given white clothes. It also mentions that there are naked in heaven.R 3:17,18, R16:15 White clothes are earned by martyrs, R6:11.

      Nakedness comes from living by the flesh, the Ice cream and a movie Christianity. White clothes are obtained by not loving your life to the death.

      Thetimeofthesignsandthebeginningofsorrows…If I am understanding you correctly in your earlier comment, you actually think the 70 weeks are unfulfilled? That’s amazing, because this seventy weeks prophesy in Daniel accurately pinpoints the time of Christ (69 weeks) through the last week at 70 A.D. where the conquering Roman General stood in the Temple of God, declaring himself to be God. The temple was then destroyed. It’s been a long time since I’ve researched this accurately fulfilled prophesy and the reasons why the weeks were multiplied because of certain promises due to lack of repentance. It’s a fascinating research beginning with the prophet Ezra. The wise men from the East had this prophesy, as well as others I am sure. Because of it they knew exactly when to be looking for the star and its significance. The wise men may have even been descendants from the same school that Daniel was part of and taught in. Daniel 9:24 was fulfilled in Christ Himself. The Messiah was cut off but not for himself… vs. 26. Thank you Jesus for what you did for us on the cross! The Romans put an end to the sacrifices. Prophesy fulfilled!


      • Sorry, R Ross, but the Romans “putting and end to sacrifices” is not prophecy. The sacrifices continued for quite a number of years after the Resurrection and will be resumed in the Third Temple. The Jews are getting prepared for this very thing.

        The purpose of the 70 Weeks in to accomplish 7 things:

        Seventy weeks are determined
        For your people and for your holy city,
        1. To finish the transgression,
        2. To make an end of sins,
        3. To make reconciliation for iniquity,
        4. To bring in everlasting righteousness,
        5. To seal up vision and
        6. (to seal up) prophecy,
        7. And to anoint the Most Holy.
        Daniel 9:24

        ending sacrifices isn’t on the list.

        Btw, which Roman General were you referring to?


  4. For those of you who consider the rapture an escape mechanism fantasy, don’t worry. Plenty of people will die to satisfy your blood lust and desire for death before the 70th Week begins. When the Pale Horse rides, up to one quarter of the earth will die (about 1.75 billion). And that Death will be by violence, starvation, thirst and disease. But since that’s not enough for you, there’s more.

    During the 6th Seal. the earthquake that moves every mountain and island out of place and the tsunami that will be generated will likely kill another large fraction of the population. Still not enough for you? Wait! There’s more!

    Jesus said,
    For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
    Matthew 24:21-22

    It seems like it will be a literal Hell on Earth. Hopefully, at this point since the earth’s population has been reduced from 7 billion to the brink of extinction you will be satisfied.

    God has an established pattern of saving people from being destroyed by “tribulation”. Like Noah through the Flood, Lot out of Sodom, and the Jews through the Red Sea. Study the “multitude that no one could count” that shows up in R7 between the 6th and 7th Seals. That looks like a raptured group and is before the start of the 70th Week. (The 70th Week enables the building of the Temple which is first mentioned in R11)

    Yes, be prepared for yourself to die, but don’t wish mass death and suffering upon others. Call upon The Lord. His sacrifice is your salvation in the end days, not your works of your own death by martyrdom.

    “For a mere moment I have forsaken you,
    With a little wrath I hid My face from you for a moment; But with everlasting kindness I WILL HAVE MERCY ON YOU,”
    Says the LORD, your Redeemer.
    “For THIS IS LIKE THE WATERS OF NOAH TO ME; For as I have sworn
    That the waters of Noah would no longer cover the earth,
    So have I sworn
    And the hills be removed,
    But My kindness shall not depart from you,
    Nor shall My covenant of peace be removed,”
    Says the LORD, who has mercy on you.
    Isaiah 54:7-10

    Btw, Noah was “pre-trib”


    • The pale horse already rides. The color actually is green… check your Greek. Word is the base for which we get many other green things… chlorine, chlorophyll, etc. The pale horse is the environmental movement. In the name of this movement we save the whale, but abort the baby… legal ones alone account for over 65 million. The CDC recently reported that 98 million polio vaccinations were contaminated with cancer. There are currently many cures for cancer, but because the billions donated every year to “find the cure” the actual cure is suppressed. The London Times reported in 1987 that the AIDS virus was generically made and put in the hep B vaccine given to homosexuals, and the polio vaccine in Africa and other places. 25 million have already died from AIDS and over 33 million are currently living with it. These are just a few pestilences created in the name of a good cause.

      Funny you should mention the 4th and 6th seal, but leave out the 5th. That’s because the church is martyred in the 5th seal. Oops, did I say church, my apologies, the saints and believers who have the testimony of the Word of God. (For those who don’t know… it is a very important assumptions by the part of pre-tribers that those referred to as saints, God’s servants, etc. after Rev. 4 are not the church. If indeed they are one in the same the pre-trib view falls apart. There are hundreds of these such assumptions that the pre-tribers must embrace to believe what they believe. Each assumption is taught by man. Jesus and Paul both warn, “Let no man deceive you.” ) The 5th seal does not support your thoughts that God has established a pattern of saving people from tribulation. In fact Jesus promises just the opposite in John 16:33, “…in the world you will have tribulation, but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.” He also gives the parable of the sower, Mark 4:13-20

      You are right about saying that it will be like a hell on earth. No wonder Jesus told us to pray always that we may be considered worthy to escape all, in Luke. 21:36. It would be great to make it to the end and not just escape some. (But there again worthiness is the issue, not salvation. We know we are not saved by works, or worthiness. The distinction between the two brings any rapture idea of the word ‘escape’ into question, because all would escape because of salvation, not works or worthiness.) Worthiness referred to in Luke comes from entering into His rest, and not succumbing to fear see Psalms 91. What a wild ride that will be. Daniel tells us that those who know their God will do great exploits.

      Consider communion: We are told to remember His broken body and His blood. Why? As an example, of course.

      God put us on this Earth to make a choice. Will we serve Him or serve our flesh. No flesh wants to be persecuted, but without it a choice cannot be made. Every pre-triber wants an out to persecution. Jesus tells us to embrace it. If we don’t embrace it, it gives opportunity for an itching ear. An itching ear is what is needed to embrace huge amount of assumptions necessary to buy into the pre-trib belief.

      If the church only taught us to embrace persecution, we would share are hope of salvation with others. We don’t because of the fear of persecution. Because of this, the church at large does not evangelize. There will be a great falling away. Jesus told us about who falls away in the parable of the sower Mark 4:13-20. Unfortunately the pre-tribers will make up almost the entirety of this number. Why?, because of their view on persecution. Jesus says when “tribulation or persecution arises, immediately they fall”. Mark 4:17 For this reason I write, so that my words might bring salvation. I don’t think there is any argument that ‘the great falling away’ is those who now consider themselves brothers. You must count the cost if you want to be a believer.

      All those who live godly lives in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution. 2 Tim. 3:12


      • I agree with you, have you ever considered the pale green horse to be Islam?


      • Pastor IRVIN BAXTER also describes the rider on the pale (green) horse as Islam. He has a terrific series, check it out for yourselves.


      • I agree Ken I’ve listened and watched his videos, I can’t disagree with any of them. Thanks for bringing this out.


      • R Roth, and others.

        Please don’t assume that becaue I didn’t mention the martyrs of the 5th Seal that I have ignored or otherwise omitted it in my eschatological view. I am in no way minimizing the devastation to come. Before it’s all over, the human race will be nearly extinct. Why you are looking forward to being part of that I have no idea.

        The souls of the 5th Seal are since the time of the beginning of the Church which is why I did not mention it as a specific single event. There are two very significant points about the souls of the 5th Seal. The points are that they are identified as martyrs, and there is a specific number. They are crying for vengeance which comes during the 70th Week. Therefore the 70th Week hasn’t begun yet. Their number is completed in R20, not R7. The souls of R7 are NOT martyred! Read what it says about those in R7. Perhaps they are first joyous that they are saved and later crying because of unsaved loved ones left behind? Think about that! This uncountable multitude is somehow ignored by everyone “pre” or “none” in this debate. If an uncountable multitude showed up at your doorstep, you’d take notice and pay attention! So please don’t error in considering me “pre-trib.” You can correctly identify me as “pre-70th Week” or “having an R7 Rapture view.”

        Yes, during the Beginning of Sorrows and 70th Week there will be many martyred as you described as we are seeing in the world today. Keep in mind that Pale Horse rider is identified by name. It’s name is Death. Don’t worry, one out of four people on the earth will be dead before R7 and the 70th Week, so you and I still have plenty of time to die before R7.

        The same error I see with every comment on here is that no one has discussed the end times in terms relative to the Jewish 70th Week of Daniel. No one has even attempted to identify where in Revelation it begins. No one has bothered to consider the “tribulation” events of the present day are the Beginning of Sorrows, where Jesus says, “The end is not yet!”

        The term “trib” is so ambiguous it can be applied the the entire past 2000 years so it is an utterly useless terminology in any debate about a specific time period. Yet that is what everyone is arguing about! This entire string isn’t even a discussion of the prophesied 70th Week or even the Beginning of Sorrows! It’s an argument about an ambiguous term! How can you have a specific discussion about an ambiguous term???

        Nowhere in this entire string of debate is the significance of God’s nation of people the Jews mentioned. Is that because of antisemitism or just self centeredness? By not mentioning God’s nation of His chosen people, many are missing a huge aspect of prophecy.
        NEWS FLASH: Jesus was a Jew! Do you think maybe there should be a Jewish consideration to understanding prophecy?

        The end times judgments, Seals Trumpets and Bowls are against the nations, not individuals. The prophecies may be written in Greek but are given from the perspective of the Jews, Jerusalem and the nation Israel. The final 7 years is the Jewish 70th Week of Daniel. So to begin understanding it must start with, ‘Where is the 70th Week relative to the book of Revelation?’

        First you must know what event marks the beginning of the 70th Week, which is the “confirming of the covenant.” (Dan 9:27) What will that mean? The Temple does not yet exist and it is violated at the mid-Week point. Therefore the confirming of the covenant likely facilitates access to the Temple Mount and Temple construction. The first mention of the Temple is in R11 when it is being measured. If you’ve ever built anything you know that you measure something when it is being built. Since the Jews are prepared to begin immediately, this construction may be just after the start of the 7-year 70th Week. So until the construction is about to start, we can assume the 70th Week hasn’t begun. The building of the 3rd Temple indicates the 70th Week has begun.

        Therefore the events of Revelation 6, 7, 8, 9, & 10 occur before the 3rd Temple. The events they describe are The Beginning of Sorrows. How long is this period of time? It’s impossible to tell, but it is prior to, and in addition to the final Seven Years. From R6 to R19 is therefore much more than seven years! It is a much longer period of time than most realize. If Obama is the White Horse, and the “Arab Spring” Muzlum violence is the Red, the coming global financial collapse is the Black, we can gain an approximation where we are in the timeline.

        Just as God did not give the Law and the Prophets to the Gentiles, the 7-year 70th Week of Daniel is also for the Jews. They have a difficult job to do:

        Seventy weeks are determined
        For your people and for your holy city,
        To finish the transgression,
        To make an end of sins,
        To make reconciliation for iniquity,
        To bring in everlasting righteousness,
        To seal up vision and prophecy,
        And to anoint the Most Holy.
        Daniel 9:24

        Will there be many of them killed? Most certainly. That is why Satan still wants to annihilate them even after Jesus has come the first time. Their job is not finished. We should be praying for them. If they are eliminated, Jesus doesn’t come back. Satan wins the earth.

        Btw, only the 144k of R7 are sealed with the mark of God and are therefore exempt from the torment of the 5th Trumpet. So if the Church is still on the earth, without the Mark of God the Church will be subject to that torment.

        I am trying to understand these end times just as you are. I don’t hate you because I disagree with you. Neither am I attempting to deceive anyone. I would love it if you were in the multitude of R7. But it’s sad to realize that what seems like contempt, even hate for the “pre-tribbers” in this debate string is just what Jesus said would happen:

        “For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I (Jesus) am the Christ,’ and will deceive many.”
        “And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.”
        Matthew 24:5,10-12

        Sad sorrowful times indeed.

        Should we prepare for the worst? Yes.
        But because this is a much longer of period of time than anyone recognizes, any preparations are works that will fail. Your works will not save you.
        Should we hope for the best and trust in God? YES!
        The Just Shall Live By Faith.

        After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “SALVATION BELONGS TO OUR GOD WHO SITS ON THE THRONE, AND TO THE LAMB!”
        Revelation 7:9-10


      • You have the hatred backwards. I have been called a lying dog and other choice names and threatened with death and he’ll just for posting this. Thus was by those claiming to be christian. I don’t address the 70th week of Daniel because it has been fulfilled including part. If you read Revelation and even Daniel it tells if a 3 1/2 year period. No 7,000 year period. That is man’s interpretation. I have made numerous postscript once this. I am not an apologist I will not defend the word of God. It stand s on its own!


      • iamnotashamedofthegospelofchrist I do not consider the pale green horse to be Islam, not that it couldn’t be. I believe the muslim bros will soon consume ten countries in the middle east. Yes ten, you know that the church has been pointing at the EU to be the ten horns of the first beast of Rev. 13. Of course, that never happened, and it’s not about Europe. I believe the first beast to be the New World Order, but as you know it’s the second beast that is the real concern. The NWO is fundamentally founded by corporate greed. Money and greed are very influential, however not to the point of martyrdom. The 2nd beast will be founded in religion, a one world religion. It will be a combo of all the world religions, of course, Islam will be highly influential. This second beast will consume those who think they can control them and the middle east, but in the end ultimately fulfill their plan. We are starting to see that religion in it’s infancy now. Of course, all of this is my opinion, and that could change as things unfold. Rick Warren who wrote the ‘purpose driven life’ is one of the heads in the West of this one world religion. You can see him praying to the Islam god for Obama’s first inauguration. He teaches a “seeker friendly doctrine”, Jesus spoke the opposite..see John 6:66.


      • I cannot disagree with what you say. There is some debate among scholars that the antichrist will come from the ecclesia. It’s very clear that there is a push for a world religion, one that is appealing to all. Most especially Chrislam. I run from that. As you say, time will tell, for those watching and listening, it will become increasingly clear. My worry and what keeps me awake at night is that there will be many that won’t recognize this because the rapture hasn’t happened, and many will follow this distorted doctrine. They already are. There are so many pastors, leaders, and churches that are falling away even declaring that homosexuality is not a sin. May God give us all knowledge wisdom and guidance, and keep us in His hands until He returns.


      • Ken,

        Irwin Baxter interprets the Bride of Christ the same way Picasso interprets a beautiful woman.


    • Actually Noah was “post trib”! LOL Yes, Noah and his family endured the great flood and was not spared out of the flood but rather through it. That example of the End Time Church made it through the original “Great Tribulation” by the grace and assistance of Almighty God. Just like post trib Church will endure the trial coming upon the whole earth. “As in the days of Noah……”


  5. Michael

    With all due respect, Brian Schwertly needs to do a little deeper research. While most say that
    John Nelson Darby originated the “Rapture Theory,” this is also incorrect. I forgot the individual’s name but the first support for the rapture was in a letter written by an individual who was from the
    Syriac Church in the 300’s. This early church father moved to Asia Minor from Syria and to the best of my recollection established a church there. I am sorry I do not remember the name and do not have time this evening to look up his name again. To reiterate, most opposed to the rapture doctrine cite John Nelson Darby as its originator. However, there again that is moot. All revelation is progressive and many times we do not realize things are prophesied until they happen and look back. The disciples did not understand much of what Jesus’ told them and In Luke 24 He had to personally lead them through the Scriptures to show that Messiah had to suffer and go through what He did. No matter how sure we think we know everything, there will be surprises as to how it ultimately comes to pass. I feel sure the Apostles did not grasp the significance of the 22nd Psalm as being a prophecy of Messiah’s crucifixion until sometime after his crucifixion unless he specifically told them in Luke 24 and/or during other times of his 40 visitation after His resurrection.Remember in John’s gospel when everyone was arguing as to the identity of Jesus. The leaders replied, “Search the Scriptures and see what prophet comes from Galilee.” Jesus was born in Bethlehem to fulfill Micah 5:2 but very few knew.
    Regarding the letter by the Syriac believer, I have read about it in two or three different sources. The late Grant Jeffrey cited it multiple times as his support but I have read about it from much deeper teachers than Mr. Jeffrey. I am sure if you do a search, it should be reasonably available.


    • Ok, for every piece of research you give I can give 10 more. Here is a link that proves the Early Church did not teach this. But we must stop this, and stop it now. The Body of Christ is made to look like fools when this happens. And I won’t stand for my Lord to be diminished in this fashion. Believe what you want, but answer me one question. WHAT DOES IT HURT TO PREPARE? WHAT DOES IT HURT TO KNOW THAT OUR SAVIORS RETURN IS NEAR? WHAT DOES IT HURT TO WARN PEOPLE TO PREPARE FOR TRIBULATION BEFORE OUR LORD RETURNS. IF YOUR RIGHT THAN YOU CAN LAUGH ALL THE WAY TO HEAVEN. BUT THINK OF THE SOUL’S THAT COULD BE SAVED. I WANT TO BE A PART OF THAT. Enough already, I must be about my Father’s business. I will pray for everyone. Search the scriptures for yourself, be a Berean. Don’t believe any man, I don’t care who it is. If it’s not Biblical it’s not doctrine. I double check everything with Jesus’s words. May God guide each and everyone into His truth, and keep you in His capable hands until He returns.


      • Proverbs 6:6-23 Are the verses someone gave me for a reason to prepare for whatever may come. The Word gives wisdom and knowledge for all things.


  6. Revelation is a continuous timeline with parenthetical inserts. One of the parenthetical inserts is R7. There is a very important reason why there is a pre-70th Week rapture.

    The Church is both Jew and Gentile of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues. And this is the exact description of the multitude that no one could number that shows up in the second part of R7.

    The 144K JEWS are the Believers in Jesus remnant left behind and protected to fulfill the Prophecy of the 70 Weeks. They are to evangelize the unbelieving Jews about the Messiah.

    “Seventy weeks are determined
    To finish the transgression,
    To make an end of sins,
    To make reconciliation for iniquity,
    To bring in everlasting righteousness,
    To seal up vision and prophecy,
    And to anoint the Most Holy.
    Daniel 9:24

    The 70th Week is the purpose of the Jews! During this time God will judge the Nations (satanic kosmokrator spirits) ruling over the earth. The separation of the sheep and goats which is the rapture is out of all the nations.

    Have you ever wondered why Satan still wants to kill the Jews even after the Messiah has come as savior?

    If there is a Rapture prior to the 70th Week, then all that will remain on earth is non-messianic Jews (excluding the 144K) and the heathen Gentiles. If Satan can exterminate the left-behind Jews, there will not be any believers in Christ to call Jesus back. Daniel’s people, the Jews are to fulfill the prophecy of the 70 Weeks, not the believing Church!

    It is the Jews that must acknowledge their offense and seek for the Messiah to come using the authority obtained through the Risen Christ.

    “I will return again to My place
    Till they acknowledge their offense.
    Then they will seek My face;
    In their affliction they will earnestly seek Me.”
    Hosea 5:15

    Consider that in Genesis man was given dominion and authority over the earth. But that dominion and authority was lost to Satan in “The Fall”. Just as dominion and authority was lost by the disobedience of one man, it was regained by the obedience of one Man. Man, through the blood of Christ now has dominion and authority on the earth. Therefore it is that regaining of dominion and authority through the blood of Christ that the Jews must also recognize.

    Just as there is two main views to the rapture, there are two advents of the Messiah. Those Jews who missed it the first time (as in Stephen’s Sermon) must acknowledge Jesus as their Messiah. If the Church is on earth, it will be the ones calling for the Christ. THE JEWS have to do it because they are the ones to fulfill the prophecy!

    With the restrainer removed via the rapture, if Satan can succeed in killing the Jews, there will be no man of God left to call Jesus back. Satan will permanently win dominion over the earth and rule over the species of human that has been transformed via the 666 mark into his image.

    However, God will supernaturally protect His nation of His chosen people so they will acknowledge and seek Jesus. The antichrist will not be able to protect “his” people from the plagues that are to come.

    Then the forces of antichrist will gather for the final battle against the remaining remnant, and also aim their weapons to the sky in an attempt to destroy Jesus when He returns in Glory on His White Horse with the multitude of His saints, His Bride the Church.


  7. Check it out. I love you all, brothers and sisters in Christ.


  8. I to see the scriptures clearly pointing to the Rapture of the Church, “After the Tribulation.”

    In the Old and New Testament the Bible spells out The day of the lord and the Wrath of God coming on the Earth after the Sun is Darkened and the moon shines not.

    Isaiah 13:9-10
    Behold, THE DAY OF THE LORD comes,
    cruel, with WRATH and fierce anger,
    to make the land a desolation
    and to destroy its sinners from it.
    (10) For the STARS of the heavens and their constellations
    will not give their LIGHT;
    the SUN will be DARK at its rising,
    and the MOON will not shed its LIGHT.

    Isaiah 13:13
    Therefore I will make the heavens tremble,
    and the earth will be shaken out of its place,
    at the WRATH of the Lord of hosts
    in THE DAY of his fierce anger.

    Joel 2:1
    Blow a TRUMPET in Zion;
    sound an alarm on my holy mountain!
    Let all the inhabitants of the land tremble,
    for THE DAY OF THE LORD is coming; it is near,

    Joel 2:2
    a DAY OF DARKNESS and gloom,
    a day of clouds and thick DARKNESS!
    Like BLACKNESS there is spread upon the mountains
    a great and powerful people;
    their like has never been before,
    nor will be again after them
    through the years of all generations.

    Joel 2:10
    The earth quakes before them;-( THEM ?? THE ANGELS, THE HARVESTERS)
    the heavens tremble.
    The SUN and the MOON are DARKENED,
    and the STARS withdraw their shining.

    Joel 2:16
    ————, “Let the bridegroom leave his room,(HIS THRONE)
    and the bride her chamber.”(PSALM 91 THE SECRET PLACE OF THE MOST HIGH)

    Joel 2:31
    The SUN shall be turned to DARKNESS, and the MOON to blood, before the GREAT and awesome DAY OF THE LORD comes.

    Joel 3:15
    The SUN and the MOON are DARKENED,
    and the STARS withdraw their shining.

    A look at more scriptures in the Old Testament and what the bible says will characterize the day of the Lord:

    1. A day of Reckoning – Isa. 2:12

    2. A day of Judgment – Isa. 2:13-17

    3. A day Cruel, with Fury and Burning Anger – Isa. 13:9

    4. A day of Destruction from the Almighty – Isa. 13:6; Joel 1:15

    5. A day of Panic, Subjugation, and Confusion – Isa. 22:5

    6. A day of Vengeance – Jer. 46:10

    7. A day that Belongs to the Lord God of Hosts – Jer. 46:10

    8. A day of Tumult – Eze. 7:7

    9. A day of Doom – Eze. 7:10; 30:3

    10. A day of Battle – Eze. 13:5; Zech. 14:3

    11. A day of Clouds – Eze. 30:3

    12. A day of Judgment for Egypt – Exe. 30:19

    13. A day of Gloom and Darkness – Joel 2:2; Amos 5:18, 20; 8:9

    14. A day that is Great and Awesome – Joel 2:11; 3:1

    15. A day when the Sun and Moon grow dark – Joel 3:15

    16. A day when Justice is Dealt Out – Obadiah 15

    17. A day of Punishment – Zeph. 1:8

    18. A day of the Lord’s Anger – Zeph. 2:23

    19. A day that is Unique – Zech. 14:7a

    Looking at all the passages that deal with the day of the Lord in the Old Testament, it is clear that this is the time that God’s Wrath will be poured out upon an unbelieving world.

    In 1 Thessalonians 5, Paul tells us that this day will come to the unbeliever as a “thief.” His exhortation in verse 6 is to “be alert and sober,” and in verse 4 he says that because the believer is “NOT IN DARKNESS” that day should not overtake him as a THIEF.

    Luke 21:34
    But WATCH yourselves lest your hearts be weighed down with dissipation and drunkenness and cares of this life, and that day come upon you suddenly like a trap.

    The scripture’s that say watch pertaining to the coming of, “Jesus.”

    Matthew 24:42 “Therefore keep watch
    Mark 13:35-37 Therefore keep watch, What I say to you, I say to everyone: ‘Watch!’
    Mark 13:33 Take ye heed, WATCH and pray: for ye know not when the time
    Mark 13:35 Watch ye therefore

    The 6 seals that are before the, “WRATH” of God, The day of the Lord!

    (1) Revelation 6:2 – The rider of the White horse, “He” had a bow, and was given a “Crown.” ( The Antichrist was given the Kingdom of Babylon-Revelation 17:16-17 The Beast shall hate Babylon with the 10 Kings- to make her Desolate, For God has put it in, “there” hearts to do his will.)

    (2) Red Horse -War
    (3) Black Horse – Economy, Inflation.
    (4) Pale Horse – and the rider of that horse was Death, and Hell followed him.
    (5) Souls, who were slain “For the Word” & the Testimony which they held- (Matthew 13:21 for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word,)
    (6) There was a great Earthquake and the Sun became Black as sackcloth of hair and the moon became Blood. The Stars of Heaven fell to Earth, The Heaven departed as a scroll.

    Revelation 6:15-17
    And the KINGS of the earth, and the GREAT men, and the RICH men, and the CHIEF captains, and the MIGHTY men, and every BOND man, and every FREE man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the WRATH of the Lamb: 17 For THE GREAT DAY of his WRATH is come; and who shall be able to stand?

    Matthew 24:29-31
    Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

    Mark 13:24,25
    But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light…

    Isaiah 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth…

    Isaiah 24:23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem…

    Jeremiah 4:23-28 I beheld the earth, and, see, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light…

    Ezekiel 32:7,8 And when I shall put you out, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud…

    Joel 2:10,30,31 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark…

    Joel 3:15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.

    Amos 5:20 Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?

    Amos 8:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, said the Lord GOD, that I will cause the sun to go down at noon…

    Zephaniah 1:14,15 The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hastens greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD…

    Luke 21:25,26 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity…

    Acts 2:19,20 And I will show wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke…

    Revelation 6:12-17 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, see, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair…

    Revelation 8:6
    And the seven angels which had the SEVEN TRUMPETS prepared themselves to sound.

    Revelation 11:15
    And the 7th Angel sounded and (verse) 18
    And the nations were angry, and thy WRATH is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged

    Revelation 11:19
    And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were LIGHTNINGS, and VOICES, and THUNDERINGS, and an EARTHQUAKE, and GREAT HAIL.


    If the 6 seals are opened, and the very last one before the day of the lord, the wrath of God is poured out happens at the end of the Tribulation?
    Then what is the 7th “Seal”???

    Revelation 8:1
    And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.


    Revelation 15:1
    And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, SEVEN ANGELS having the SEVEN LAST PLAQUES; for in them is filled up the WRATH of God.


    Revelation 16:1
    And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the SEVEN ANGELS, Go your ways, and pour out the VIALS of the WRATH of God upon the earth.

    (1) Grievous sore upon the men which had the Mark of the Beast.
    (2) The sea became Blood and "EVERY" living soul died in the Sea.
    (3) Rivers and the Fountains of waters became Blood.
    (4) The 4th Angel poured out his Vial upon the Sun and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire. ( MALACHI 4:1For, behold, THE DAY cometh, that shall BURN as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and THE DAY that cometh shall BURN them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.)
    (5) The 5th Angel pours out his "Vial" upon the seat of the beast ( Babylon ) and "his" Kingdom was full of "Darkness."

    We know the Kingdom of the Beast is "Babylon" as stated in Revelation 17:16-18 :and "give" their Kingdom unto the Beast.
    Also One of the "Names" given to us in the scripture's of the Antichrist is, "The King of Babylon" (Isaiah 14:4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased! )

    (6) The 6th Angel poured out his "Vial" upon the Great River Euphrates and the water was dried up to make way for the Kings of the East.
    :to gather them to battle of "THAT GREAT DAY" of God Almighty.
    VERSE 15 Behold i come as a thief, blessed is he that "WATCHETH."
    (7) The last "Vial."
    Revelation 16:18
    And there were VOICES, and THUNDERS, and LIGHTNINGS; and there was A GREAT EARTHQUAKE, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty AN EARTHQUAKE, and so great.
    Revelation 11:15After the 7th Trumpet sounded, VERSE 18 "The nations were angry and, "THY WRATH IS COME" and the time of the dead, that they should be judged." VERSE 19 –

    And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were LIGHTNINGS, and VOICES, and THUNDERINGS, and AN EARTHQUAKE, and GREAT HAIL.-( Echoed from Revelation 16:18)
    Verse 19 : and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his WRATH.
    Jeremiah 50
    Jeremiah 51
    Revelation 17
    Revelation 18
    Babylon Babylon is fallen is fallen, for in one hour is thy judgment come.
    Revelation 18:8
    Therefore shall HER PLAGUES come in ONE DAY, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
    Revelation 16:21 The plague of hail.

    Luke 21:36
    WATCH ye therefore, and pray always, that YE may be accounted worthy TO ESCAPE ALL THESE THINGS that shall come to pass, and TO STAND BEFORE THE SON OF MAN

    (FIRST) Matthew 24:31
    And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
    Luke 21:36

    (SECOND) Revelation 17:1
    And there came one of the SEVEN ANGELS which had THE SEVEN VIALS, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee THE JUDGEMENT of the GREAT WHORE that sitteth upon MANY WATERS:
    Revelation 17:9
    And here is the mind which hath wisdom. THE SEVEN HEADS are SEVEN MOUNTAINS, on which the woman sitteth.

    The seven mountains are not the seven mountains in Italy, Its the seven continents, ASIA, SOUTH AMERICA, NORTH AMERICA, AFRICA, EUROPE, ANTARCTICA & AUSTRALIA! Revelation 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sittet

    "She is surrounded by many Waters"–which are peoples and multitudes and nations (17:1,15)
    She has glorified herself. (18:7,19)
    She says she sits as queen and shall see no sorrow.(18:7)
    She is very rich. (18:17)
    She deceives with sorceries all nations. (18:23)

    This is a direct reference to BABYLON THE GREAT, who is also called THE
    DAUGHTER OF BABYLON. Jeremiah calls her directly THE HINDERMOST OF THE
    NATIONS. You view this his perspective, as he looks down the tunnel of time – the
    HINDERMOST from him would be the LAST BABYLON. That means the LAST
    GREAT NATIONS AT THE END TIME. In comparison with the other nations of the
    world, at the time of the end, SHE WILL BE THE YOUNGEST AND ALSO THE
    description perfectly. She is the YOUNGEST and yet the most powerful NATION among
    the NATIONS of the world.

    My conclusive conclusion is, "America is Mystery Babylon" America surrounded by North Pacific, The North Atlantic, The Gulf of Mexico, The Arctic, the Great
    Lakes, the mighty Mississippi. You will see what God meant when he said that Babylon
    the Great would be a nation formed out of every tribe and tongue on earth, who slowly
    America is the central nation involved in GLOBALISM, and is the chief instigator of the NEW WORLD ORDER. American Corporations and their
    leaders have spanned the globe, for they are the MIGHTY MERCHANTS OF

    Jeremiah 50 & Jeremiah 51 + Revelation 17 & Revelation 18, America is Mystery Babylon, and the king of Mystery Babylon is The Son of Perdition! A few examples that America is Babylon, "A sword is against her treasures, and they will be robbed. A drought is against her waters, and they will be dried up. For it is the land of carved images, And they are insane with their idols. Jer 51:39 – I will make them drunk, That they may rejoice, And (sleep a perpetual sleep) And not awake," says the Lord. HOW MANY WATCHMAN HAVE TRIED TO AWAKEN THE AMERICAN CHRISTIAN"S THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ( sleep a perpetual sleep )

    The King of Mystery Babylon is "Barack Obama."
    Obama's stage at the 2008 Democratic convention was designed in the style of the Pergamon Altar, a Greek Temple, which is mentioned in the book of Revelation on top of the stadium was the white horse Revelation 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

    The Bible said the Antichrist would come in his own name John 5:43 The bible says in Revelation 6:2 The Antichrist comes riding a WHITE horse and was given a crown! In Islam the rider of the WHITE horse means "buraq" " or "Barack"also known as "thunder" lightning, Known in Greek mythology as "pegasus" In Daniel 11:39 "He" The Antichrist cause the "God of Forces" Islam to rule over many! Barack Obama king of mystery Babylon America!

    Daniel 11:38 "But in "his" "Estate"-Hebrew 3653 Office!
    The God of Forces In the 1899 1900 KJV The God of Forces is the, "Munitions" and the, "Muazzin" the Muslim official of a mosque who summons the faithful to prayer from a minaret five times a day– someone who proclaims a message publicly.

    Daniel 9:27
    And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:
    Barack Obama "Operation Covenant of Peoples"
    "Operation Unbreakable Alliance"

    Strong's 1299 baraq (baw-rak) from baraq: lightning,

    Luke 10:18
    And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

    Strong's 1300 (Greek) "O" To accomplish thoroughly, to persist, continue.

    Strong's 1116 (Hebrew) "bamah" "height high place.

    Isaiah 14 Where we get " baraq: lightning," & "bamah" "height high place, coincidently we get in,
    Isaiah 14:4
    That thou shalt take up this proverb against THE KING OF BABYLON, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased! Ref: Rev 18:16

    The 7 Vials, "Plagues" that come upon Babylon in That day the day of God's Wrath.


    • Yes, good question Daniel, what is the seventh seal? It appears in R8:2 that there is a package inside the package. In other words when the 7 seal is opened there is a package of 7 trumpets inside. So that would make the 7th seal a package deal of 7 trumpets.

      Also it appears that you may be considering that the trumpets and the bowls are one in the same. I believe you will find the key to this mystery in R10. Herein R10 we have a vision within a vision. Chapter 10 does not appear to have anything to do with anything else about anything until you get the the end and you understand the whole point. That is that the angel was telling John that he was about to prophesy again. The first prophesy from R6 flows and comes to completion at the end of R11, “the kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our God, and he shall reign forever and ever. Chapter 12 really comes alive when you understand the sign in the heaven. Check out the video, ‘The Star of Bethlehem” produced by Stephen McEveety. When you see the woman clothed in the sun in the star maps that referred to here in R12:1 it’s astounding. This happened at the birth of Christ. John who is writing this may have even witnessed this event. Vs 10 also makes it clear because it parallels what Jesus proclaimed when he stated, “I saw Satan fall like lightening from heaven.” Chapter 12 is about the life of Christ and the church. The trumpets and the bowls are indeed one in the same. They mention the same landmarks, although one may give an amount of destruction and the other not.


  9. “The Tribulation Is Now: Why Isn’t The Body Of Christ Ready?”

    You may not want to hear this, however, it does not change the truth. The answer to the question is so obvious, it hides in plain site and cloths itself in righteousness. It has come into “church” as the proverbial “Angel of Light”.

    Are you ready for the truth?

    The church is so busy trying to find the splinter in their neighbors eye, they strain out the gnat while they choke on the camel. Their eyes are on the works of Satan embodied by their neighbor instead of seeking the face of God. They pretend to be righteous by demanding all follow the Christian law while in their closets they work the darkness in their own bodies and souls and not a prayer is heard. The only prayer is that which is done in public for show. You have sown your hypocritical judgment, now you will reap true judgment.


  10. And still we bigger about words.For those who seem to think that we are not in the great tribulation already, I would like to ask one simple question. According to history nearly 10 million Christians died at the hands of the Roman empire. Then came the Roman Catholic church and murdered some 50 million and it has not ended yet. What was that then, a walk in the park for these people? How many has been murdered by the Muslims that we know of, or for that matter by communism.I firmly believe that the great tribulation has started when Jesus ascended. We are now just nearing the climax, which is going to be as bad and even worse that what has happened with the disciples and all the other martyrs. Disregarding the offer of millions of people because of semantics and other nonsense is in itself a grave error. A very simple and plain truth is – you either know your God, or you don’t, you either know His word and His promises or you don’t. You either obey His word, or you don’t. This is how simple the truth really is and all of us can understand this, the problem seems to be that we think that we know better than God what He wants and therefore add our own stories to all of this. Remember: 1Jn 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. If you then need to know what the truth is, go ask God, He will tell you, but please stop relying on people to tell you the truth, only God knows what the truth is. Like everyone here, that is just my interpretation


  11. I have been study the rapture question for 40 years from and with scholars on both sides. My first point is I feel it grieves the Lord that there should be such hostility among so called Christians over this. It is time to grow up. There are valid arguments for both sides of this issue
    and much, much deeper than anyone has quoted here. If you are pretrib, mid, post, whatever,
    it is irrelevant! Any proper study of the prophetic reveals that nowhere is there a guanantee that the believer will not suffer; quite the contrary. Tell this story to our fellow believers in North Korea, China, the Middle East, Muslim countries in Africa and elsewhere. I lean toward a pretribulation rapture because of years of study of the numbers in Scripture and it does seem to fit better with the man of sin’s peace pact, his revelation in the mid trib in II Thes.2:2-4 but I could be wrong. When Antichrist comes, we know that ten kings will give their power over to him. This is recorded both in Daniel and Revelation. I believe those regions are in the process of being put together now. However, this is not the point. We need to be about the Master’s business and whether one is pretrib or whatever should have on bearing on that. I teach 3 Bible classes and constantly remind all who come that we need a call to holiness. We need to remember that the Most High will hold us all accountable for, “we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ for what we did, whether it be good or bad.” This judgment is for the believer only. The unsaved are at the Great White Throne. Let us cease petty bickering over issues that we won’t know for sure until we are on the other side. If you want to hear him say, “Well done good and faithful servant, enter into the joy of your Lord,” you better get busy about the business of the King and His kingdom. No mature Christian of any sort gets hung up on this but is busy.


  12. Here is an excerpt from an article by Brian Schwertley (the full article can be found here).

    The teaching of a secret pretribulation rapture is a doctrine that never existed before 1830. Did the pretribulation rapture come into existence by a careful exegesis of Scripture? No. The first person to teach the doctrine was a young woman named Margaret Macdonald. Margaret was not a theologian or Bible expositor but was a prophetess in the Irvingite sect (the Catholic Apostolic Church). Christian journalist Dave MacPherson has written a book on the subject of the origin of the pre-tribulation rapture. He writes: “We have seen that a young Scottish lassie named Margaret Macdonald had a private revelation in Port Glasgow, Scotland, in the early part of 1830 that a select group of Christians would be caught up to meet Christ in the air before the days of Antichrist. An eye-and-ear witness, Robert Norton M.D., preserved her handwritten account of her pre-trib rapture revelation in two of his books, and said it was the first time anyone ever split the second coming into two distinct parts or stages. His writings, along with much other Catholic Apostolic Church literature, have been hidden many decades from the mainstream of Evangelical thought and only recently surfaced. Margaret’s views were well-known to those who visited her home, among them John Darby of the Brethren. Within a few months her distinctive prophetic outlook was mirrored in the September, 1830 issue of The Morning Watch and the early Brethren assembly at Plymouth, England. Early disciples of the pre-trib interpretation often called it a new doctrine.”

    John Nelson Darby (1800-1882), who was the leader of the Brethren movement and the “father of modern Dispensationalism,” took Margaret Macdonald’s new teaching on the rapture, made some changes (she taught a partial rapture of believers while he taught that all believers would be raptured) and incorporated it into his Dispensational understanding of Scripture and prophecy. Darby would spend the rest of his life speaking, writing and traveling, spreading the new rapture theory. The Plymouth Brethren openly admitted and were even proud of the fact that among their teachings were totally new ones which had never been taught by the church fathers, medieval scholastics, Protestant Reformers or the many commentators.

    The person most responsible for the rather widespread acceptance of Pretribulationalism and Dispensationalism among Evangelicals is Cyrus Ingerson Scofield (1843-1921). C. I. Scofield published his Scofield Reference Bible in 1909. This Bible, which espoused the doctrines of Darby in its notes, became very popular in Fundamentalist circles. In the minds of many a Bible teacher, fundamentalist pastor and multitudes of professing Christians, Scofield’s notes were practically equated with the word of God itself. If a person did not adhere to the Dispensational, Pretribulational scheme he or she would almost automatically be labeled a modernist


  13. I agree that there is some mixed up teaching about the rapture. Some of what you have said falls into that category mixed up. You take some of what is and belongs to Israel and apply it to the church. And others, take some clear teaching about what happens in judgment and exempts the church from those possibilities. Both are wrong. Western Christians are wrong to think they are not going to be caught up in the fall of western civilization (US particularly) as a judgment of God for rejecting Him. But those who say there is no rapture before the tribulation are also wrong. As Christians I believe we, especially we here in the US, are going to be subjected to the effects of God’s judgment on this country. I have in fact pointed this out to several people in ministry from time to time through the years. But God has not appointed the Church to go through wrath, his judgment on the whole of earth during the tribulation. Judgment and the suffering of Gods judgment on a nation or people for turning from God as American has, yes we’ll be caught up in that. God making an “end” of things pertaining to the Israel the church is not appointed to this. In many cases a prophecy has two applications and two distinct fulfillments and so some confusion about who what when where how etc. Wrath in the day of the Lord no… suffering during a judgment of a nation or people ….yes.


  14. Is there any wonder there is such an argument as Pre-Mid-Post-None about the Rapture when NOBODY defines the nebulous and ambiguous term “tribulation”??? WHY is everyone so devilshly imprecise?

    IT’S THE 70TH WEEK OF DANIEL FOLKS!!!! It is the most specific measured period of time in the entire bible given in week of years, half week of years, months and days! The beginning, middle and end points are identified! Not labeling it correctly is the origin of error.

    The 70th Week is not started by the Rapture. The Rapture is not in Revelation 4.

    Chapter 6 is the Beginning of Sorrows and parallels Mathew 24 and Luke 21. The Beginning of Sorrows is judgment, not wrath.

    The Muzlum Obama is the White Horse Rider (this character does not have to be the A/C) who is conquering the mightiest ally of Israel. This is the beginning of the One World Forced Government with Jizya, Taqiya, & Dhimmi.

    The Red Horse is the “Arab Spring” muzlum uprising ignited by the guy who lit himself on fire in Tunisia Dec. 2010. It is the beginning of the One World Forced Religion.

    The Black Horse is the soon to arrive global financial collapse. This is the beginning of the One World Forced Economic System/666

    The Pale Horse is Death for those who don’t submit. (Izlam literally means submit and you know what they do to those who don’t)

    The events of the 6th Seal are camouflage for the Rapture so those left behind will believe the lie that, ‘there was no rapture’. Expect a massive global earthquake and the resultant tsunamis. Just as God took Noah through the Flood, and Moses led the Jews out of Egypt through the water, so shall it be again.

    Isaiah 54:7-10 (Noah like flood, rapture, earthquake)
    Daniel 9:26 (the interval between the 69th & 70th week ends with a flood)
    Mathew 24:37-29 (Noah like flood then ‘one will be taken one will be left’)

    And that is just the beginning. The 70th Week hasn’t even started yet!

    If you think there is no rapture, then prepare to be killed for your belief. But not until after the five months of torment of the Locust from the Pit.

    Take a look in Revelation 7. That uncountable multitude is happy to be SAVED! They are NOT martyred! Read what it says about them! If you command someone to come out of something, you are not commanding them to go through something. They came out ‘because of’ great tribulation.

    If you believe that Jesus died on the cross for your sins and that God raised Him from the dead you will be saved. If you don’t believe it, will you be saved?

    Jesus promised to return for his bride the Church. If you don’t believe that will you be of the five wise or the five foolish?

    Prepare for the worst.
    Hope for the best.


  15. Lots of people here making comments that used to believe in the pre-trib thinking. I too, then I read the bible for myself.

    Everyone who believe in the pre-trib thinking was taught that by man. So many times before the Word starts speaking of end times it prefaces it with, “Let no man deceive you!” Pre-trib thinking is always taught by man and those who belive it will always point you to some man to have you listen to them to make their point. Never will they point you to the Word of God.

    The Word of God is clear and concise when It speaks of the end times. If at anytime an assumption is needed to understand, you have not dug deep enough into the mystery. Every foundationial pre-trib doctrine is based in assumption. These assumptions cause the great deception.

    Consider 2 Thess. 2:1-6 and the chronological order of it:
    (vs. 1) concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him. (this is the rapture right… no confusion here) (vs. 3) let no one deceive you, that “Day” (the rapture referred to in vs. 1) won’t come until after, 1)the great falling away, and 2) the man of sin is revealed (the anti-christ), (vs. 6) the Lord will destroy him (the anti-christ) with the brightness of His coming. How much clearer can it get? This passage is to gentiles (Thessalonians) not Jews. Its about His coming and the rapture; Before he comes there is a great falling away and the anti-christ’s regime, and when Christ does come and gathers us to Him, He consumes the anti-christ with His brightness. Very clear, no need to assume anything.

    Working this passage with the pre-trib assumptions:

    To be a pre-triber you have to twist this scripture and say there are two “that Day”s (or raptures), you have to assume that the church was taken out in the middle of this passage, you have to assume that Jesus has two comings, you have to assume that the restraint is the church, and you have to assume that the anti-christ is only revealed with no power to actually bring tribulation before the ‘first’ “that Day”. None of these assumptions have any indication of any hint to their validity in the Word. They are all far removed from the plain and simple Word. All of these assumptions bring confusion to the Word of God.

    These passages are not isolated in the use of assumptions in the pre-triber doctine. All pre-trib doctrine manipulate the Word of God into mass assumptions that are foundational to the doctrine.


  16. So for those on this forum who are determined to go through the 7 year tribulation, I guess my question would be why, and what exactly do you think will be accomplished by doing so? If you were about to marry a woman, would you spend 7 years dropping her off in the ghetto so she could be raped, stabbed, mocked and beaten up? Granted, modern women have attitudes that need to be purged with rigor before they will be worth marrying and most of these feminists will never change anyway. But for those who have had a change of heart, I have to ask why Jesus would want to spend 7 years beating the day lights out of His Bride before the wedding?


    • So therefore according to your logic all the Christians who are the bride of Christ that are being killed, tortured,dropped off in the ghetto so she could be raped, stabbed, mocked and beaten up TODAY are not being raptured because???????Why???? Why is His bride being allowed to go through this NOW???


      • Ken,
        Good response and good question.
        I think that the real answer is going to be found in revelation 3:10 and it is going to have to do with the different promises that were made to the 7 Churches of Asia. Philadelphia is the only one that was promised escape in 3:10. We also have to consider that modern Christendom looks much more like Laodicea than it does Philadelphia. But then we also have to ask why God is specially bringing “The Time Of Jacobs Trouble” upon His Jewish bride while removing at least a portion of his Gentile bride? You remember the verse about the son of the bond woman not being made heir with the son of the free woman. Again, The Lord doesn’t have to answer to any of us as to why some are martyrs and some are not. Equality is the rallying cry of the homosexual and feminist movement, not the creed of Almighty God.

        So then we get into dispensationalism and we have to ask if believers in each generation are representative of each of the 7 churches of Asia in their individual practice and personal obedience.

        Yes, this subject takes considerable study and still no man knows the day nor the hour. But in Thessalonians believers are still listening for a trumpet rather than looking for a thief.


    • Why did the catacombs happen? Why did the apostles get beheaded, crucified upside down…? Why are there multiple persons in Syria and more (right now) being killed because they name the Name of Jesus?
      Acts 14:22 “…We must through many tribulations enter the Kingdom of God”
      Luke 22:28 “But you are those who have continued with Me in My trials.”
      Romans 8:17 “…if indeed we may suffer with Him that we may be also glorified together”
      2 Tim 3:12 “All who desire to live Godly will suffer persecution”

      In your post I sense you are not excted to be tourtured for your faith, niether am I this is why I try to pray every night what Jesus commanded:
      Luke 21:36 “Watch therefore and pray always that you may be found worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass and stand before the Son of Man”.
      So you see it is not every Christian’s lot to become a matyr…maybe only those who refuse to follow His command. BTW this is the last command given by the Lord Jesus Christ before He went to the cross, it is not an option, He did not say please…He gave a command. DO this for your children if nothing else!
      If you pray to your Heavenly Father and ask for a loaf of bread, will He give you a stone?


    • Isaiah 24-26 speaks of the end times. Is. 26:9 answers your question: “With my soul I have desired You in the night, Yes, by my spirit within me I will seek You early, For when Your judgements are in the earth, The inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

      I find it amazing that people think the pleasure ridden USA is righteous. God’s Word tells us that “all those who live godly lives in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.” The persecution in the USA has been almost non-existent on a personal level for so long that I heard a gal try and tell me that when she stubbed her toe she experienced it. Yep, we’ve seen a vacation from it. Vacation to soon be over. Righteousness and persecution are inter-linked and unseperatable. Therefore, if you consider the Word of God true, you must also consider the USA ungodly according to this verse.

      The suffering of this age is not worthy to be compared to the glory of the next… Paul.


  17. Myriad and Jammer……………….You are definitely of the remnant God has in the earth for these perilous last days…God bless You.


  18. JC4Life……..God Bless You for the understanding heart God gave you,via the Holy Spirit!!!!!!!!!!! You have it right.Blessings to you and yours.


  19. You are so Preaching my song!!!! It burdens my heart the Hatred pre-tribbers have for those that don’t fall for their false doctrine! The Bible doesn’t contradict itself it confirms itself so if there are any verses you can’t fit in your interpretation then it is wrong. I would LOVE it if it was true and it would make my life easier. I don’t like to think of what may happen to my family, yet I know as long as I hear from Him He will keep us safe. He will bring us through the fire, refine us and make us pure. That is His Promise to us!


    • Amen! JC4Life. And yes we have that promise from Him to bring us through the fire. I too would love to escape but I’m following advice from someone I love, stay prayed up, packed up and ready to go. Thank you.


    • that’s weird jc cause I don’t know too many Christians that hate you because you are confused about the rapture of the church? I just know that there are so many great men of God who’ve been preaching pre trib and have for over 50 yrs. reputable men like jack van impe, hal Lindsey, grant Jeffries before his passing, Adrian rogers also gone on to be with the Lord, pastor hagee, perry stone. are they all haters? I don’t think so…but I think there are people that are misinterpreting scripture to make it seem like we go thru the tribulation. and may I add that no reputable prophetic teacher has us going thru the great tribulation or any part of the tribulation! and we should never hate those that are confused about this subject. only pray that the Lord will give them wisdom concerning this confusion that those who preach Christians going thru trib have brought to so many believers! I could give you so many scriptures that rebuke these false teachings by those who pervert the gospel. but I would encourage you to research these great men of God and their teachings on the tribulation to help you clear up the confusion being taught out there by improper timelines and dispensations. but I do not hate you and others who teach this. but when we go meet the Lord in the air as 2nd thess says, we can slap high fives on the way up, that he has allowed us to escape the wrath that’s coming on the ungodly left behind:)


    • Here’s one that will throw some into a tizzy. Have you considered that the 5 seals are pre tribulation? 7 is Gods number of completion. The 7 seals are the last warning to the world before the wrath is to come. When we look at the sixth seal – why do the leaders hide in the caves and proclaim who can hide us from the wrath that is to come?

      Seal one white horse – a symbol of peace. Rider with a bow but NO arrows. Yet he sets out to conquer. What if this individual is a precursor to the AC – think of Obama.

      Seals 2 – 5 are seen happening in the world today but especially in the middle east. We all know the focus for the trib is the middle east.

      Seal 6 is an earthquake, solar eclipse, blood red moon, meteor shower. Next year we have a known solar eclipse followed shortly after by a blood moon and meteor shower which fall on the feast of Tabrinacles. If there is a very great earthquake in the spring of next year preceeding the solar eclipse it will be the completion of the list in the sixth seal. Also, mentioned in the sixth seal is the parting of the heavens. What if this is the rapture?

      Then we have an interlude of sorts. Where God seals the 144,000 Jews. This makes sense if you realize that the church is gone. Then God picks up with the Jew at the next feast where he left off with them. Jesus completed the Passover and unleavened bread whether they acknowledge it or not. The 144k is their Pentacost. Then we have silence in heaven why because as the 7th seal is broken we know what is to come we fear for the world. Then the angel throws down the prayers of the saints. Followed by the 1st trumpet judgement.

      Even a rapture at the feast of Tabrinacles makes sense. For it is to dwell with the Lord. That He has taken us out of bondage. Our deliverance from Egypt –


      • Think deeper JAFO, the seals are not put in any time frame except when John is told that he would be shown what is to come. That could be anytime after John receive the revelation. Only the pre-tribers attempt to box it up into a seven year period.

        Consider the four horsemen. They are all world conquests. We have had many such conquests from John until now. The Crusaders, Communism, Hitler… consider the colors that are depicted with these conquests. (See the Chick publication, The Four Horsemen for an in-depth study.) Consider the color of the 4th horse. The Greek is chloros (sp?), which actually means green. Today we have a world conquest and in the name of environmentalism we kill babies, and create pestilence to for the greed of big pharma. The fifth seal speaks of martyrdom. The Voice of the Martyrs, reports that more christians have been martyred in the last generation than in the entire history of the church. This has seriously escalated in these last months. Entire Coptic Christian villages have be wiped out in the Muslim Brotherhood take over in Egypt and other Muslim countries. The sixth seal parallels Matt. 24:29. Matthew 24:30 Jesus comes in great power, vs. 31 the rapture,

        Vs. 29 of Matt 24 “immediately after the tribulation…”. Study the timeline Scripture gives… all these five seals in Rev. happen before vs. 29 of Matthew. Therefore the great tribulation is the 5th seal, if not all the previous seals.

        The sixth seal has many parallel scriptures about the stars falling, and the sun and moon being darkened. Isaiah, Ezekiel, Zechariah, Jesus, all speak of this event. As we know science today if one star were to fall from heaven Earth would be consumed, because stars are suns that are much bigger than the Earth. However, the definition of star back then also included wondering stars which also include meteoroids, comets, and the planets.
        We do have a comet ISON coming our direction in Nov, and Dec 2013. It could wreck havoc, but I believe there is another definition of stars that fits best;

        The Gospels says the powers of the heavens will be shaken, and the stars will fall. The Greek for heavens is oranos (sp?). This oranos mean far heavens. Oranos is also the name for the Greek god of the heavens. Around 1850’s the planet Uranus was discovered and named after this Greek god. Within 10 years another discovery was made and that discovery was named after the planet Uranus… uranium. Uranium is a key ingredient in nukes. Nukes use the same power as stars, fission and fusion. Many nukes or “mini-stars” can fall to Earth. This would fulfill Zachariah’s prophesy of peoples faces melting in this event. In this prophesy Zachariah has a similar description as those describing the aftermath of the nukes hitting Japan in the 2nd world war. Meteoroids hitting Earth do not have the same cause and effect.


      • JAFO,
        The tetrad of blood moon eclipses are hugely significant! If the pattern holds, there will be an event significant to the Jews concluded before the tetrad begins. Here’s a possible scenario:

        Trouble starts up again with Syria, and Syria launches on Israel. In the retaliation Damascus is destroyed. (Isaiah 17) The neighboring peoples then form a confederacy to “wipe Israel off the map”, but are themselves destroyed. (Psalm 83) Israel expands it’s borders to the Euphrates in the east and the Nile in the west. This is the land covenant in Genesis 15.

        The man who is the antichrist confirms that covenant beginning the 70th Week of Daniel.

        This incoming comet ISON could have an electrical interaction with the sun’s magnetic fields (kinda like dragging your feet on the carpet and touching a doorknob) causing a coronal mass ejection. If that CME hit’s the earth it could cause the “sky to recede like a scroll.” Additionally, in mid-January when the earth passes the place where the Inbound ISON crossed the earth’s orbit it may encounter the debris left in it’s wake causing a spectacular meteor shower that looks like “the stars of heaven falling like late figs when the tree is shaken by a mighty wind.”

        Also the Feast of Purim (Book of Esther) is celebrated in mid-March one month before the tetrad begins. It celebrates the Jews fighting back against annihilation, which could be what they will be up against again soon.

        All that is missing is an earthquake that moves every mountain and island out of it’s place. Interestingly the elites in their bunkers know that it is coming.


  20. Genesis………….Your knowledge of the latin terms are great,only not all people who read the bible such as our brothers and sisters in Africa,Nigeria and other languages will not be sitting with a latin translation dictionary…We are called to teach the word of God PLAIN AND SIMPLE and some are just poor simple people who need the word of the truth of God flat out,without a dictionary along with it ….Jesus said HIS WAY IS SO SIMPLE A CHILD CAN UNDERSTAND IT!
    In fact it’s so simple that The Youngest God called to Reign for him was Joash who was 7 years old and he reigned 40 years(2 Chronicles 24:1)…….We cannot save our brothers and sisters if we think we have to go outside the word for other words like Rapture.Let’s stick with the word of God which speaks for itself through the Holy Spirit.
    God bless You.


  21. Is it true that the word “Rapture” is not in the Bible?

    Yes, that’s true. But neither will you find the Trinity by name in the Bible, nor the word mission and a number of other terms we use to describe theological concepts clearly taught in Scripture.

    The word “Rapture” in Scripture is taken from the Latin “rapio” for the two words “caught up” used in 1 Thessalonians 4:17. It has come into popular use today to refer to the Lord Jesus coming for the church, to lift her up into the heavens. One raptured is “lifted up” in love.

    When you are studying the rapture of the church, there are several things you need to keep in mind. First of all, the second coming of Christ is in two parts, separated by a period of seven years.

    The first part is sometimes referred to as the “Rapture” (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, 1 Corinthians 15:52-58). The second part occurs when Christ physically, bodily returns to this earth on the Mount of Olives from which He ascended. The interval between these two events, known as the Tribulation and Great Tribulation, is divided into two, three-and-a-half year periods each. The seventy weeks described in Daniel 9:24-27 speaks of this.

    The Great Tribulation is the “wrath to come” from which the believer is delivered by the Rapture (1 Thessalonians 1:9-10). The children of God, “because they have kept the word of His patience, will be kept from that hour of trial.” (Revelation 3:10).

    We believe that the Scripture teaches that Christians will not be judged with the world when God pours out His wrath in the day of the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 5:9 says, “God has not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.” Scripture teaches us to look for the Lord’s return, not for the tribulation (1 Thessalonians 1:10 and Titus 2:13).

    Jesus said regarding His second coming, “But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but My Father only.” We should live like Jesus is coming today. It may be closer than we dare dream!


    • Post tribers also believe that Christians will not be judged with God’s wrath. Unfortuniatly Pre-Tribers have not studied the Word of God so to understand the huge seperation between tribulation and wrath. The Great Tribulation is not God’s wrath. This is very clear in Rev. 7:14. Here you can see the begining of the transition between the Great tribulation, and God’s wrath. The Great Tribulation is man destroying man through the wickedness of man. The Wrath of God is God judging man who does not have God’s mark.


    • Sorry but you are in serious error!
      The Rapture is after the 6th seal and the Wrath of God is the 7th seal! Its as simple as that!


      • I don’t disagree with you about the 6th seal! It coincide with Matt. 24:29-31. Therefore how can I be in serious error?

        What you probably not taking into consideration is that the 6th seal also parallels the 6th trumpet and the six bowl. John is told he will prophesy again in R10. Revelations has overlaps, it is not entirely sequential.


      • I actually agree with you boldncourageous. I too have come to see the parallels with the trumpets, bowls, and seals. I agree it’s not sequential.


  22. If you read the NT without putting on the systematised ‘glasses’ of men you will soon see that any reference to a rapture or being “caught up” to the Lord, is in the context of the 2nd coming itself. You have to read into the text this idea of multiple ‘comings’. We ARE in the tribulation NOW and it will soon come to the West in force. Yes, Christians are exempt from the wrath of the Lord but we are not exempt from the wrath of Satan or from the ‘fallout’ from a divinely judged world. Daniel and his friends were Godly men but they faced exile from their homeland and the true church has always been called on to suffer for the kindoms’ sake so why should our generation be any different?

    A faulty exegesis of Rev 3:10 will not keep your BODIES from the hour of testing that is coming upon the world because it is to be understood spiritually- i.e. God will keep or preserve our FAITH through this time. The author of this article is spot on in his analysis for this ‘fleshly’ understanding of these issues by Christians over the last century or so has directly led to the rise of evil in this world for it has encouraged us to disengage from the world’s affairs (which we were mandated to ‘conquer’ for the kingdom) because we are so willing to to forsake our calling to suffer for the name of Christ.


    • Thank you Myriad, and you are spot on. If you read the next verse you find that the ‘overcomer’ will be made a pillar in the Temple of God. Overcomer is pretty self-explanatory. And yes, God will preserve our faith. Many Blessings to you and yours. May God keep you in the palm of His hand.


      • Please, the old Testamemt provides us with examples of the rapture before the wrath. What do you make of Enoch, Noah, Lot and family, Elijah. I’m sorry but God has already shown that he delivers the Rightous from His wrath.


      • Dear Jafo,

        If I amy, I would like to respond to your comment.

        While it is true that GOD spared these individuals of HIS divine wrath, they were not spared seven years before, nor even seven days beforehand. It was the DAY Noah entered the ark, that divine judgment fell. Yes, the true remnant shall be delivered from HIS wrath – on the DAY of wrath!

        My number one concern for those who have bought into the nice, neat packaging of the whole ‘pre-trib’ position is this: if you are correct then I will be delightfully surprised! If I am correct, you will be horrifically shocked….and many I fear, will be horrifically unprepared for what their eyes will behold. All too often when discussing what is even ‘at the door’, I hear this comment, or a similar one: “Oh, I don’t need to know all that! (usually said with a light chuckle) I’ll be outta here!!” This, my dear fellow follower of the Messiah, is a set up to fall for the great deception that is already under way.

        I could care less about winning an argument. But I am deeply concerned my brethren who stand to be grossly unprepared because they failed to heed the admonition to: “Watch and pray.”

        May He greatly bless you with wisdom and insight as you study HIS Word, to show yourself approved beloved.

        ❤ By HIS grace and for HIS glory!


    • Writings in the first and 2nd century of the early church fathers speak to a pre trib rapture. If you want to believe that a bride groom would leave His bride to go through that – well you are entitled to do so. However, to me I look to Paul when he tells husbands to love their wives as Christ loves the Churck. I’m a bit hard pressed to find any man who would put his wife through such a trial just to prove she loved him..

      According to your theology in order to make salvation fair. All those who died before the trib should have to come down here and go through the trib with the rest of us to prove that they are worthy.



    Still looking for that word Rapture in scripture???????.We are forewarned in Revelation “For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophesy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophesy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city , and from the things which are written in this book”(Revelation 22:18,19).
    It’s up to you if you want to receive plagues and be taken out of the book of life……RAPTURE is NOT a word in scripture if it were of God he would most certainly have it in their for us to read.Let’s not add a word that’s not there and jeopardize our souls!


    • I’m assuming you know the bible was not written in English–The word for Caught up is Rapio, and it is in the bible–Furthermore, since you like to quote revelation, why are you forgetting Jesus said he would leave the door open to only one of the 7 churches?


      • To the Church in Sardis: For those who have not soiled their clothes, they will walk with Me, dressed in white for they are worthy. He who overcomes…..
        To the church in Laodiocea ‘To him who overcomes I will give the right to sit with me on my throne… Also If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with hem and he with me. To the church in Thyatira: Hold onto what you have until I come, to him who overcomes, and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations…. To the church in Pergamum: To him who overcomes I will give some of the hidden Manna, I will also give him a white stone with a new name written on it….. To the church in Smyrna He who overcomes will not be hurt at all by the second death…… To the church in Ephesus To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God….. Enough said. And yes I know the Bible was not written in English. But the word rapture is still not in there, sorry.


      • To the person running this blog—I never said the WORD Rapio was in REVELATION DID I?


        And to think we are in the tribulation right now IS LAUGHABLE!

        The Tribulation will not start until the Anti-Christ is revealed, which will coincide on the day of the rapture…

        To the person running this blog, do you just make this stuff up as you go?


      • Genesis, you may attack me personally all you want. I am reminded my Savior was mocked, spit on, beat and crucified. My sufferings are nothing compared to His. And As Peter and Paul rejoiced when they were mocked, so shall I, for it means I must be telling the truth for satan to work such hatred in people.


      • Oh, so when someone points out you are wrong they are attacking you, I see, you want to play the victim..

        FACT–You are wrong, if you want to take that as an attack, then yes, I am attacking you~

        “YOU” will be here to see all of the things the bible spoke of, I’m not disputing that, you and many others that did not believe that we were “not appointed” to the lords wrath WILL be here, I guarantee you that..

        I don’t like to see people who twist and omit what is obvious to a 9 yr old, because what you are doing, is telling people, you have PLENTY of time to get right with the lord, forget that whole coming like a thief in the night thing, forget that having your oil ready at all times parable, forget that pray that you may be worthy to escape these things which will test the world–Forget all of that, just resign yourself to the fact that you are going to go through hell on earth, same as those that completely rejected the lord because Jesus paying for your sins on the cross wasn’t enough for you….

        Yes, that makes far more sense–It’s like telling a child, here are your two options..

        Johnny you may sit there for 3 hours and do homework and study, and then do another 3 hours of chores topped off with cutting the lawn..


        Johnny, you may go out and play all day, afterwards we”ll go get ice cream and then see a movie!

        Now, you will both receive the SAME EXACT punishment when it’s over, so go ahead and pick one you want!

        Yes, you are indeed WRONG!!


      • I can tell by this reply that you did not even read the article. May God richly bless you.


  24. Sorry to spoil it for all of you but you guys are all spouting denominational doctrines,Christ will not return until there is unity I know the bible says let there be no divisions among you,teach and preach the same things,one faith one baptism,one gospel,The church is the bride of Christ and is not plural,So until there are no references to catholics,baptist,wesleyan,presbyterian,and the other 26,000 denominations,and we all become Christians the powers of darkness will rule.Can you imagine a world where everyone wakes up tommorow and lived like the Christians of The New Testament it would change the entire world.


    • I hate to break it to you but there will never be unity in the church like you believe. Go read the chapters 1-3 of revelation the letters to the church’s then that we’re in existance. How many of the Apostals wrote to warn of Gnostics in their day. The church is not perfect because it’s full of sinners. This side of the Lords return we will continue to see dimly and make errors. Only upon his return shall we all know the full depth of the word and be in unity.


    • History repeats itself. God designed it that way so we could learn from the mistakes of those who went before. In the persecuted church of China history shows us much. When persecution hit the church in China denominationalism fell away, and the underground church became one. When the doors started to open once again in the last couple of decades and the Western church brought in it’s influence, denominationalism returned. The Chinese wanted bibles and were hungry for the Word. Unfortunatily doctrination of man also came because of the books that came along side the bibles. (Find the whole story in the testamoney of the book, ‘The Heavenly Man’.)

      Persecution brings purity to the church. The Body of Christ will soon have a common eneny, and no longer be fighting itself.

      The Chinese leaders who lived through their persecution report that prior to that time they preached a pre-trib gospel. They so regret doing so because of the great falling away when persecution hit, and wish that instead they preach a gospel the James teaches. That is, that, “All those who will live godly lives in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.” (Read Rick Joiners book, ‘The Harvest’ to get the whole testamony of the Chinese church leaders who lived through it.) Unfortunatily, history shows that the escape doctrine of we “won’t have to suffer wrath” brings about a great falling away.

      Jesus promises tribulation to all christians when He said, “In this world you will have tribulation”, He doesn’t promise wrath. Pre-tribers, don’t you agree that the Chinese church suffered tribulation not God’s wrath? How then do you have a problem understanding the difference?

      Dennis Balcomb, a missionary to China over the last 40+ years tells us that the Chinese Government has maintained a national church in China throughout the persecution called the Three-Self church (If I remember the name correctly). In this church there are three things that are not allowed. One, you cannot evangelize, and no children are allowed. Two, you cannot teach miracles, and the power of God. Three, you can not teach end time doctrine. Hmmm, this sounds much like what’s considered taboo the Western church, except for the children. The Chinese Three-Self governmental church shows us the importantance of the end time doctrine and China’s history shows us the importance of getting it right!


  25. Jesus rescues us from the coming wrath:

    (1 Th 1:8-10 NIV) The Lord’s message rang out from you not only in Macedonia and Achaia–your faith in God has become known everywhere. Therefore we do not need to say anything about it, {9} for they themselves report what kind of reception you gave us. They tell how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, {10} and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead–Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.

    (1 Th 5:9 NIV) For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.

    (Rev 3:10 NIV) Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth.


    • We are not assigned to God’s wrath. This is the foundation and entire reason for the fabrication of the pretrib doctrine. However If escape from earth via rapture is the way out concerning God’s wrath this view is seriously flawed:

      If you believe that the bride of Christ escapes God’s wrath through the rapture, then you must also believe the tribulation saints escape it through martyrdom, because if they aren’t dead… God’s saints, must endure God’s wrath.

      According to the Pretrib belief the only escape from God’s wrath is being absent from the Earth. So everyone “Left behind” must endure God’s wrath!

      This of course, is an erroneous notion that God would pour out His wrath on His people. Especially those who not only has to endure the worse ever tribulation the Earth ever experiences, but know their decision to choose God could cost them their life.

      So if we are in agreement that God would not allow His own to experience His wrath, we have a major problem for the pre-trib doctrine. It’s in one verse (Rev. 16:15) that pretty much explains everything. It is placed in between the last two bowls of God’s wrath. It is Jesus declaring that he is coming for those watching for Him as a thief in the night, and He tells His own to get ready…

      Because of this we know two things… 1) God protects His own during the time of His wrath (Psalm 91), and 2) the entire pretrib doctrine that is founded in escaping God’s wrath physically shatters and falls to the ground.


  26. The tribulation hasn’t started yet. It won’t start until after the Rapture when the antichrist will be revealed.

    (2 Th 2:7-8 NIV) For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. {8} And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.


    • Isn’t that awsome! Jesus is going to destroy the antichrist by the splendor of His coming! To me that means that the antichrist ain’t going to be around anymore to do anymore tribulating/persecuting. Jesus’ coming brings and end not a start of tribulation. Isn’t that what that means to you? Good thing the Word tells us in this passage EXACTLY in verse 1 about THIS coming: “…Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, AND our gathering together with Him…”


  27. Who is the person who is occupying the Mount and who is it who is causing people to be marked to buy or sell? Be specific in this. Then there was an announcement — what announcement?


  28. The tribulation hasn’t started yet. It won’t happen until after the Rapture and after the world leader is revealed.

    (2 Th 2:7-8 NIV) For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. {8} And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.


    • Lingsun,

      The NIV was written by those who hold your view. Unfortunately they also changed the Word of God to fit their belief concerning this doctrine. Let me just give one example of the many:

      We are told who the great multitude are in Rev. 7:14

      However if you are reading the NIV you will miss it, because of a translation error!

      The word “Come” in Rev. 7:14 has a verb tense that is foreign to the English language. That is, the verb tense is “present and imperfect”. (see the strong’s) Present tense is common in English but imperfect is foreign to the English language. If you’ve know or have taken Spanish, you know there is a past imperfect tense, and it takes some understanding to grasp it’s meaning if you speak English as a first language.

      We (English speakers as a first language) know what present tense is, but the NIV uses the word “came” which makes the verb past tense and the translation incorrect. As we know “present” and “past” are not the same, but exact opposites. Therefore the NIV changes the Word of God to say the exact opposite as it was originally intended. The NIV continually does this and changes the meaning of God’s Word throughout the translation. Beware of the waring in Rev. 22:18,19. That has serious repercussions!

      The imperfect tense means “ongoing” and so when added the “now” of the present tense, it makes the verb tense to mean ‘presently ongoing’. So if Noah spoke English to his wife he might say to his wife while the animals were loading into the boat, “The animals come two by two into the boat.” This satisfies the present imperfect tense if the meaning is that this event is currently (now and ongoing) happening. Another way of presenting this tense is to use, “are coming”… The animals are coming two by two. To say ‘have come’, ‘came’, or ‘has come’ changes the verb to in incorrect tense.

      the KJV states, “Which come”. This is a correct translation, however it can be read to twist its meaning. It must be interpreted as happening now and continuing to happen to maintain the appropriate verb tense form. If at any time someone attempts to read it as ‘has come’ or ‘have come’ or did already come, it changes the original text.

      So who are those who are the great multitude as John and the elder discuss? They are those who are coming out of the great tribulation. Their numbers are incomplete. We also know that those martyred in the fifth seal, their numbers are ALSO incomplete. They are indeed coming out of great tribulation, because they are not loving their lives to the death, being martyrs.

      The very context of the scripture tells us that the martyrs of the 5th seal and the great multitude are one in the same.

      To say that the ‘great multitude’ of Rev. 7:9 is raptured people is to add to this book and puts one’s self in danger of receiving the plagues of it Rev. 22:18.

      Be careful that no man deceive you Matt. 24:4! The pre-trib doctrine is always taught by man! At no time can it be found in the book of Revelations… it must be added into it!

      John 16:33 “These things I tell you that in Me, you may have peace. In this world you will have tribulation, but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”


  29. I’m tired of the mocking of people that believe there is a rapture before the Great Tribulation. You take what that doctrine is and make a mockery of it.. you have no clue what is behind it… and you don’t have a deep understanding of prophecy in scripture, the Jews and the promises made to Abraham. You have no clue, and no love for others that don’t believe the Church goes through the rapture. I’m tired of Steve quayle posting such articles… then making appearances on Prophecy in the News which is pro Rapture, to sell his wares. All about money..


    • Your tired of Steve Quayle posting articles such as this. I can’t speak for Quayle, but I can speak for me. There must be something some still small voice urging you to read this or you wouldn’t waste your time. I won’t read anything about pre tribulation rapture. I won’t discount an entire ministry because of it. I just know better than to believe a pretribulation secret rapture. It’s not a salvation issue but it will cause confusion and unpreparedness! The Bible say’s to not prepare is to reject the gospel. Steve Quayle is a man of God, one who still listens to the truth and isn’t afraid to speak it. One which you could learn from. Again, I will pray for everyone for their eyes to be opened. Believe what you want, but I spoke my convictions and the truth of God.


  30. Not one person can explain away the Parable of the 5 wise virgins—I guess it’s a lie..

    No, the post trib believers would rather think we are going to meet Jesus in the air, hook a U turn and come right back to earth for 1,000 years, because that makes sense, then they will say ridiculous things like, the church of Philadelphia in 2013, are you kidding me, another person that completely threw out what Jesus said in Revelations about leaving the door open for the church of Philly that no man can can close, and then they like to forget about how the church is supposed to be removed so the Jews will have their 7 year period to return to the lord, no they would rather think i’s all about them, them, them…

    Jesus said there will be a great church revival, Does anyone see a great church revival right now? ANYONE, because I sure don’t see it!

    What is it that ALL OF A SUDDEN after years of turning away from god could possibly turn people back towards him now—Wait for it—–THE RAPTURE!

    They WILL return to the church in droves once they see they were wrong!

    Believe what you choose, but climb down off your high horses with all of your righteous that’s not biblical garbage, because what you are espousing makes NO SENSE!


    • John 16:33, Jesus promises us that, “…In the world you will have tribulation, but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”

      James tells us that all those who live godly lives in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.

      It’s true our flesh want out, and our flesh will always choose pleasure rather than pain, but it’s because of our love for pleasure that God sends a strong delusion… 1 Thess. 2:11&12.

      You are right tribulation is not ice cream and a movie, but Jesus never promised that. Jesus told us in the parable of the sower that some seeds would be seeded on the stoney ground, some where the weeds would also grow, and some on the hard compacted soil. When people are promised an ‘ice cream and a movie’ gospel they will find themselves falling away when the going gets tough. That’s what Jesus said. There is a great “ice cream and a movie” gospel being taught today served with a side of pre-trib. Because there is a large movement surrounding this doctrine, there too will be a great falling away. Will you be one of those who fall away if you find yourself wrong in your thinking? If I’m wrong and you are right… Yahoo!

      The parable of the virgins… beautiful scripture. Interesting that 50% of those who are waiting for the return of Christ are told, “I never knew you” and were cast into hell. All three parables that are taught in Matt. 25 have the same theme. It’s all surrounding salvation. All are awaiting the Master’s return, and in all some of those who are waiting for the Master’s return are cast into darkness, which I consider to be hell. The Westesn church serves up the foolish, and unfaithful by means of making the gospel of “no effect” It teaches a follow after me sinners prayer of receiving Jesus. This Jesus never taught. Jesus taught a total surrender gospel. Consider His message of salvation to the rich young ruler in Luke 18:18: The ruler went away sorrowful, unsaved, although he believed and received Jesus. He could not bring himself to surrender his lift to Him. Jesus diciples then asked Him, “Who then can be saved?”

      Lets take the parable of the virgins a step further… Let’s give it a world view. In the majority of the world’s population there is a price for salvation, unlike the Western church. If you choose Christ it costs you. It could be job, family, life, or having to walk for miles just to get water everyday. In this setting what is the percentage of wise virgins? I give it a 90%. Now lets consider the West… “Come on brother, your one of us now, how about, Ice cream and a movie?” I give it about 10%. Average the 2 together and you get a 50/50. 5 wise and 5 foolish.

      Concerning the fact that he will come like a thief… If you ask a pre-triber if that is speaking fo the rapture, they will always tell you that it is. Well that is until you list the last quote where it is used in Rev. 16:15. (even printed in red!) You know, right before he comes?

      Concerning praying always that we would be considered worthy to excape all that is coming on the Earth. Yep, that is my continual prayer. Of course, if I were a pre-triber I wouldn’t be praying that, after all I wouldn’t be planning on being here. No need!

      Concerning the 7 year period of the Jews… it’s not. Yes the Jews have a number becaus ethey are counted, John was told to not count the gentiles, see Rev.11: 1&2. It’s not the time of the Jews… read vs. 2.

      Concerning revival and the rapture bringing it.. Nice thought, but historically tribulation has brought the great falling away of the shallow, as mentioned eariler in the parable of the sower. History repeats itself. Peter speaks of mockers in the last day that mock, “Where is the promise of his coming?” You can’t mock a post triber in that way, just a confused pre-triber. A post-triber knows that there was no such promise that could be thrown in your face when faced with persecution, because everytime scripture mentions that we will see Him coming in the clouds, it’s after it mentions a great tribulation.

      It is true that the Western church only is seening pockets of revival, however it’s not about the Western church who lives in pleasure. Revival is hitting hard in areas of persecution. The Chinese church is having open rallies so large that the police can’t even arrest 1%. The fear of arrest is becoming a non-issue, to the disappointment of the Chinese church which many believe that being arrested is a virtue. How wonderful it is to be counted worth to suffer for Christ.

      The pre-trib view is a young doctrine. Established around 1850-1860. Prior to that it didn’t exist. Why? because it must be taught by man. It is a doctrine that is built one assumption upon another. These assumptions can only be taught by man. When Jesus and Paul talk about end times, they preface it with, “Let on ONE deceive you.” Think about the your beginnings with the pre-trib belief. You received it from MAN! That is because it is MAN’s doctrine. I too was taught the pre-trib belief, and taught it to others. I later got saved by surrendering my life to Christ. Wow, what a difference! I read the Word for the first time. This time the Holy Spirit taught me and the teaching of man that was thrown at me all my life at church was exposed for the first time. Good-bye pre-trib!


  31. David……GOD BLESS YOU for this wonderful and truth filled write up……..There’s no denying your message! God Bless You.


  32. Eldon……………….If the word rapture was in the bible it would be easy to believe,for God does not leave anyone in the dark if their searching for him and his truth.The word is not once mentioned in scripture.Blessings.


  33. there is “a” rapture.. when the body of Christ is caught up to meet the Lord as he is coming down..

    in any case, take a look at Joel chapter 2 and Ephesians 2:7. both speak of coming ages (ages being plural)

    some believe that the 144K get left behind. in any case, i look forward to staying here, because it means i won’t get my head chopped off by an alien.


    • Everyone seems to agree that the 144k are Jews and that these are going to be here for the duration. Interesting that so often what’s overlooked is that the John is told not to number the Gentiles, Rev. 11:2. Not because they don’t exist, he’s just told not to number them.




  35. Genesis ……&…… Bill G……………Since you both support a rapture that is non existent,for if Our Father in Heaven wanted such a thing he would plainly state the word rapture in scripture. That said it is written: There is no division in the BODY OF CHRIST all are one in the Lord and God does not divide as man does for those who call on him are saved no matter if Jew,Greek ETC.To single out Protestants brings division!! “For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: For the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord SHALL BE SAVED” (Romans 10:12,13). “For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ”.(Galatians 3:27,28).God Bless You.


    • You can rest upon your own interpretation, I’m going by what I was told by the lord..

      Revelation 3:10.

      “Because you have kept my command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world to test those who dwell on the earth.”

      This verse is a promise made by Christ to one of His seven churches, the church of Philadelphia. The hour of trial Jesus speaks of in this verse is the period of time that our
      Lord calls the “great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be” (Matthew 24:21).

      Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come.

      But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into.

      So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

      Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

      To me it makes absolutely no sense to say every one will see him coming with a shout and in great power and glory, but he’s coming like a thief in the night,
      What thief comes with a shout so everyone can see him?

      And why did Jesus give us all of the signs to watch for if there was no rapture? Why didn’t he just say, when you see the mark of the beast, you know it is time..

      No, instead he called them hypocrites for being able to discern the weather but not being able to see the time and events happening around them..

      In closing all of you that think there will be no rapture, you may go living a life of partying and sin, just wait for the Mark of the beast as your signal to suddenly
      stop and repent, me, I’m going to pray that i’m worthy to escape, I will have my oil for when he comes like a thief in the night…


      • Absolutely there will be a rapture, and absolutely it will happen at the time that Jesus declares He will come as a thief in the night! The last warning that Jesus gives that he is coming as a thief in the night is…: Rev. 16:15. This warning is given a the last bowl of God’s wrath. To believe pre-trib, you must believe in two raptures, because Jesus is making this declaration at the end of the time of God’s wrath. The first rapture being at the beginning of the 7 years, then another would is necessary to fulfill Rev. 16:15 at the end of seven years. Of course, there is an assumption here by the pre-tribers. Scripture makes it clear hear that of Jesus coming as a thief Rev. 16:15, a two-part rapture is an assumption. Hmmm… if the rapture happened and exactly 7 years later He came again, it couldn’t be described as a thief in the night, could it? Those “left behind” would know the exact day and hour, and Rev. 16:15 couldn’t be fulfilled, seven years! Again, something smells of rotten fish when it comes to the pre-trib thinking.

        I realize that pre-tribers think when the Word speaks of being counted worthy to escape what is coming upon the Earth they automatically think of rapture! Consider Psalm 91, that’s the escape that’s being fulfilled here. A thousand my fall at your right hand and ten thousand may fall at your side, be nothing will harm you. The Beast is allowed to make war on the saints, see Rev. 13, and God’s servants do not love their lives to the death (Rev. 12), but if you are counted worthy, you MAY (not you will) be counted worthy to escape.

        You also mention as a sign the mark of the beast. In the original obamacare bill on page 1001 to 1009, you can clearly read about this… Type II implantable device. It specifically states that it is used for the purpose of surveillance, and is clearly an RFID (radio frequency identification). No one would be able to buy and sell without it. In these pages it is very clear that is it’s purpose. As all know that this original bill was never passed, but an over 3000 page one was. So if you all would turn in your approved obamacare bill to pages 1560 you will again see the type II implantable device. Of course, now it is obscure on it’s purpose, and there is about 10 pages written on who gets the data from this device. the main media tells us that these are hip replacements, and the like, defining the word implantable device. However, if you go to the FDA’s website, they clearly define the Type II implantable device as and RFID. It’s already here and it is law. The danger is, if you believe pre-trib… this can’t be that! So what are you going to do, explain it away? Take the chip that you can buy and sell, because that really isn’t it yet?

        The pre-tribers have become professional ‘explain it away-ers’. Although Jesus promises that in this world you will have tribulation, the pre-triber explains it away, by calling it God’s wrath. The pre-trib belief is a house of cards, every card is an assumption. There house is built on assumptions. Here is your opportunity to explain away why God would tell us in Rev. 16:15 why He would come as a thief in the night this late into His wrath.


  36. Let’s look at the repetitive signs of Jesus’ return: The seventh angel sounded a great sound of a trumpet; the last trumpet to sound is the trumpet of God. When Jesus returns and gathers the saints, there is judgment and the wrath of God befalls Satan and an unsaved world; for the day of the Lord, the great day of God, the last day is upon them all. The righteous, removed from God’s wrath on that day, will for “…ever be with the Lord”.

    I Thessalonians 4:16, 17 “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”

    Matthew 24:31 “And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other”. There is nothing silent or secretive about what Jesus is telling us.

    Another sign that gives continuity to the event is the analogy about the hour, watching and not being caught off guard, this does not imply secretiveness, rather awareness:

    Matthew 24:42, 43 “Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.”

    I Thessalonians 5:1, 2 But of the times and of the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourself know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.”

    Revelation 3:3 “Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.” (This is about being aware!)

    All three verses reference the same thing and on what day? The day of the Lord!

    In II Peter 3:10 Peter says the same things as John and Paul in repeating what Jesus said.

    “But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt fervent heat, the earth also and the works therein shall be burned up.” A great noise is not silent!

    • Day of the Lord / thief in the night. Matthew 24:42, 43; I Thessalonians 5:2
    • Heavens shall pass away. Matthew 24:35; Revelation 10:6; Revelation 20:11
    • Great noise. Matthew 24:31; I Thessalonians 4:16; Revelation 20:11
    • Destruction by fire. Matthew 25:46; II Thessalonians 1:7, 8, 9; Revelation 20:13

    We have now read that on the day of the Lord there will be a great noise and we know that: “…he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet…” when we are gathered together. Paul tells when: “Then cometh the end when he shall have delivereth up the kingdom to God…” The end “is” the last day – The day of the Lord!

    These verses together describe a continuous single event. When Jesus returns it begins the day of the Lord! The “ONLY” thing we are told that happens there after for the righteous is that the righteous (go) into life eternal… and so shall we ever be with the Lord…forever!

    Christ Returns and takes Vengeance (Judgment) on the Unsaved

    This is the beginning of the day of the Lord, the great day of God, the last day. Here it needs to be clarified that this “day” could be a prophetic day. Some theologians believe it to last any where from 5 months to a year. But let us not forget also that with Almighty God – anything and all things are possible so it may very well be a 24-hour day.

    Matthew 25:46 “And these (unsaved) shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” The end of the Olivet Discourse begins life eternal for the righteous.

    Jesus says when he returns; He will judge the sinners and remove all sin from “…the presence of the Lord.” Only the righteous (go) into life eternal while the unsaved go away into everlasting destruction, the day of the Lord is wrath and judgment and when it is over, it’s forever! Nothing more is prophesied to happen.

    II Thessalonians 1:7, 8, 9 “…when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord…”

    Jesus Christ returns on the last day and there is judgment and there is wrath from God, and this is, the day of the Lord the same as the great day of God and the last day.

    Revelation 16:14-17 “…gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon…and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, it is done.” Done, there is no more time.

    The day of the Lord, is the great day of God, the last day, climaxes into Armageddon!

    Revelation 10:5, 6, & 7 “And the (seventh) angel which I saw…And swear by him that liveth for ever and ever…that there should be time no longer…when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished…” Time is no longer as it is finished.

    Revelation 11:15 “And the seventh angel sounded: and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.”

    We represent the kingdoms of this ‘mortal’ world and we become glorified ‘immortals’ in the kingdoms of our Lord, which is the heavenly kingdom. In heaven there is no longer time, as Jesus will forever and ever reign in eternity, which is beyond (outside of) time.

    Matthew 24:31 “And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet…”

    I Corinthians 15:51, 52 “Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet will sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.”

    We shall all be changed is the same as become the kingdoms of our Lord and it happens when Jesus returns, once again, all these things are happening at the beginning of the day of the Lord, the great day of the Lord and the last day.

    I Thessalonians 4:16, 17 “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”

    Forever is forever, time ends, all prophesies fulfilled and certainly the world sees it!
    Please take to heart that the message of Christ’s return is repetitive! Over and over again we read that Jesus, Paul, Peter and John mention the following: Loud sound, great noise, and trumpet sounds, all to alert us Jesus is returning! The warnings to watch, the gathering of saints, the dead will rise, judgment takes place, sin removed, destruction and always ends with us going into everlasting life, life eternal, forever…NEVER a mention of a silent/secret rapture, 7 year time period or a future millennium!


    • Very well said.
      I would like to mention the timing of when we are caught up to meet him in the air. This will be somewhere around the Sixth Seal.
      Rev 6:12-17 “I looked and He opened the Sixth Seal, and behold there was a great earthquake, the sun became black as sackcloth and the moon became like blood and the stars of heaven fell…for the great day of HIS wrath has come”.
      Joel 2:31, 32 “The sun shall be turned to darkeness, and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and terrible day of the Lord…whosoever shall call upon the Name of the Lord shall be saved”.
      Isaiah 13:6, 9-10 “Wait for the Day of the Lord is at hand…Behold the Day of the Lord comes, cruel with both wrath and feirce anger…the stars of heaven will not give their light, the sun will be darkened and the moon will not shine”.
      Mark 13:24-27 “But in those days AFTER the tribulation the sun will be darkened, the moon will not give it’s light and the stars of heaven will fall…AND THEN HE WILL SEND HIS ANGELS AND GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECT…”
      Matt 24:29-31 “Immediately after the tribulation the sun will be darkened the moon will not give it’s light, the stars will fall…AND THEN THE SIGN OF THE SON OF MAN WILL APPEAR IN THE HEAVEN…AND THEY WILL SEE THE SON OF MAN COMING IN THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN”.
      How can this Scripture be doubted??? Do some believe there will be 2 1/2 comings?
      It says immediately after the tribulation they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven.
      Take this Scripture with the one I posted before and there is no doubt!
      By the way, this is called the Pre-Wrath view. We are not appointed unto wrath however the tribulation is not God’s wrath it is the devil’s wrath…”Woe to the inhabitants of the earth for the devil has come down to you having great wrath because he knows he has a short time”.
      The Day of the Lord is the Wrath of the King!!!
      After the trib, before the Day of the Lord, we will meet Him in the air as He comes to destroy the sinful world at the battle of A.
      Please I ask anyone to dispute what was written here!


      • Well said, we must understand that there is a reason the pre-tribers don’t understand the difference between the tribulation and God’s wrath. They don’t intend on being here so depth of study is not taken to rightly divide the Word of God. All of there doctrine is a hand me down from another person. Rev. 7:14 begins to show that transition between the time of tribulation and God’s wrath.


    • Great job David. I love my pre-trib brothers and sisters but they have been sold a lie. Unintentionally or intentionally it doesn’t matter but to think Christians all over the world who are being tortured and being beheaded and SUFFERING WRATH as I write this post are somehow not as good as we American Christians are is terrible. (I Corinthians 15:51, 52 “Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: for the trumpet will sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.”) We are instructed to put on the full armor of God and to prepare so that we will be equipped to make it through the Great tribulation. Why be prepared for it if we are to escape from it? The LAST TRUMP is just that! The LAST one! Prepare yourselves Christians brothers and sisters. I love you all!


    • That pretty much covers it David. I’ll point out thought that the pre-trib thinking explains away Matt. 24 as just for the Jews. So it’s great that you mention the other declarations of the trumpet. Of course, the pre-triber also attempts to make them into several different trumpets. I find it significant that 1 Cor. 15 defines it for the gentiles (the book was written to the gentile church in Corinth) as the LAST trumpet. That puts the rapture for the gentiles at the LAST trumpet. Not a PRE or first trumpet, rapturing out the gentiles to give the assumed 7 year period for the Jew, but LAST.


  37. “when ye see these things BEGINNING to happen, then turn your head skyward, for your redemption draweth nigh…”

    the redemption of the body, i.e., the rapture.

    Yes, without ANY doubt the rapture IS pre-trib, but that doesn’t mean that things won’t get tough for saved people before the ‘blessed hope.’

    The tribulation is strictly for lost people, so that they can become saved people. it is Gods judgment, but it is also a wake-up call, for there are multitudes who will be saved out of the tribulation.

    also, ‘the day of the Lord’ does NOT equate to the Rapture, which seems to be the lynchpin of your argument.


    • Well Eric, you are right when you say that the tribulation is strictly for lost people. However, you must remember that it also says that they repented not, and in fact they cursed God and cried out for the mountains and rocks to fall on them. Not much repentance going on during the tribulation because repentance requires The Holy Spirit which will have been removed when believers are removed.


    • Peter tells us that there will be mockers accusing christians, “Where is the promise of His coming.” Good thing there is pre-tribers around otherwise this scripture wouldn’t have the opportunity to be fulfilled. You can’t mock a post-triber in this manor. Pre-tribers will bring this mockery. Unfortunately they too will be part of the great falling away, and part of the mockery once they fall away.


  38. Many thanks for your boldness and concern for believers out there. Sadly I used to accept that fly-away doctrine, but since have been taught (correctly), and realize we are (all) transfigured at the last trump. We are here to witness against the false christ – satan. He will make promises of flyaway etc. and (deceive) many! That is what the King warned against first and foremost, “don’t be deceived”. Why put out warnings to anyone if there are going to be gone? Those false teachings indicate the Holy Spirit will be removed, well by that manner of thinking, then absolutely no conviction which leads to repentance can manifest. Anyway the (restrainer) is the Archangel Michael holding satan until he is cast to this earth. It’s a dangerous presumption believing you are going to be gone – stay working in the field until the end of the age – until the Kings return!


    • Thank you KM, I too believed the pretribulation rapture. Thank God my eyes were opened. I agree with your comment. Thanks for speaking the truth. Many will be thrust headlong into the beast kingdom and will not be prepared. Many will perish.


      • The great deception is the “rapture”, why are we any more fortunate than those Christians in other countries losing their lives for their faith? Prepare your family, stock up on provisions, let Jesus give you leadership, for when we have to Seperate from the world we will be hated by the world.


      • Amen SouthernMan! It’s time to prepare yourself and your family spiritually and physically. And yes keep our eyes focused on Jesus! He will provide our needs. He spent a lot of time warning us about what would happen to us in the world, and it’s coming. May God keep you in his arms and guide you.


  39. Luke 21:36
    “Watch therefore and pray always that you may be found worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass on the earth, and stand before the Son of Man.” This verse is after Luke’s account of the tribulation. After Luke writes of the triblulation he then states to “Watch and pray always” that you may escape what he just spoke of.
    Matt 13:30
    “Let both grow together until the harvest…first gather the tares”
    Matt 13:39
    “The enemy is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age…the reapers are the angels.”
    Also, look at the churches in Revalation. I have heard so much of how we are the church of Philadelphia who is promised to be kept from this hour…are you kidding me? Us? The church of 2013? Wow, how has the devil come into our hearts to deceive us so.
    Rev 7:9-14
    “After these things I looked and behold a great multitude which no man could number of all nations, tribes, peoples and toungs…these are the ones who come out of the great tribulation.”


  40. It is very clear there is a pre-trib rapture..You may believe whatever you choose, but to simply say it’s not biblical is a load of BS–The parable of the 5 wise virgins is fairly clear, Jesus proclamation that I will spare thee from the hour of trouble that will upon the earth is fairly clear, The protestants will be raptured, the lukewarm christians which comprises of most of the population will be staying behind, they will not be going to the wedding feast of the lamb..


    • Ok, you can believe what you will, but at least prepare for what’s coming.


    • Genesis, I dont believe you have ever read in Revelation 20:4-7 that talks of those who will be in the first resurrection who have the opportunity to reject the mark or worship the beast. If that beast isnt revealed for what he truly is until the last 3 and 1/2 years of his reign, how can you hold to a pre-trib stance? Remember that the great tribulation is not the Wrath of God.


      • Yes, Jammer that makes no sense, when Revelation 20 clearly speaks that the whole world will follow this beast and John clearly sees those who had been beheaded because they refused to take the mark. This proves we are still here, but they conveniently say that these are those who are left behind and get saved during the 7 year tribulation. This is a dangerous belief. Dangerous because it falsely leads many to believe that they can wait until all the Christians are gone, and then they can make things right. This is a belief that is taking on steam. Let’s live our life like we want, and if all the Christians do disappear, than we will know they were right. These people will die in their sins, and their blood will be on all who remained silent and refused to preach the truth. This truly keeps me awake at night, worried that many will die in their sins, not having the opportunity to make things right. The parable Jesus told about the rich man who was sent to Hell, begging Jesus to allow him to warn his brothers, Jesus and Abraham both told him, they had the same teachings as you and they can choose for themselves. There will be no second chances.
        Now there was a certain rich man, and he was clothed in purple and fine linen, living in luxury every day. A certain beggar, named Lazarus, was laid at his gate, full of sores, and desiring to be fed with the crumbs that fell from the rich man’s table. Yes, even the dogs came and licked his sores. It happened that the beggar died, and that he was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died, and was buried. In Hades, he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far off, and Lazarus at his bosom. He cried and said, “Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue! For I am in anguish in this flame.”
        Luke 16:19-31

        “But Abraham said, “Son, remember that you, in your lifetime, received your good things, and Lazarus, in the same way, bad things. But now here he is comforted and you are in anguish. Besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, that those who want to pass from here to you are not able, and that none may cross over from there to us.”

        He said, “I ask you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house; for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, so they won’t also come into this place of torment.”

        But Abraham said to him, “They have Moses and the prophets. Let them listen to them.”

        He said, “No, father Abraham, but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.”

        He said to him, “If they don’t listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded if one rises from the dead.”


      • Jesus is referring to you, those that are lukewarm that do not believe what he told you, you will have to choose to take the mark or not, those that trusted Jesus and believed in what he said, “Because you have kept my command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world to test those who dwell on the earth.”

        Will NOT BE HERE—Those of us that believe we are saved by Jesus grace and mercy alone, won’t be here, you believe you are saved by your works, hence your works will be not taking the mark of the beast and loosing your head—You are wrong!

        Stop trying to kill the hope of those who believe they were told they won’t be here, it’s satan working through you to deceive others, oh just give up because you won’t be saved…

        Even though jesus clearly said pray that are worthy to escape these things which will upon the world, and I will come like a thief in the night, but wait, he’s coming with great glory and all shall see, first he’s coming like a thief though, hence WHY we must live right and always be ready, because we DON’T know when the rapture will occur, according to you people we can live like hell at least until the mark of the beast right, no need to be ready because the mark will tip us off that it’s time to get serious, sorry, not buying that!


      • Jesus did not tell us we wouldn’t be here, he told just the opposite, he warned repeatedly, he said we would be put out of the synagogues and all men would hate us for His name, in fact there would come a day when they who kill us would think they are doing a service to God! He didn’t promise us a bed of roses, he told the truth. Take up your cross and follow Him. He also said that the path to righteousness was narrow, and wide was the path that leads to destruction, and few will find it. I am choosing to take up my cross and follow the Savior, I know my road won’t be easy, I know what tribulation lies ahead. And so do the countless others who are being beheaded at this moment for their refusal to deny Christ. I am growing very weary of the hate mail for this belief. It’s not a belief it’s God’s word. If you choose to believe in fairy tales than I can’t help that. But don’t you dare discourage or take away from the countless that are enduring tribulation and death at this very minute, by saying that you are special and will escape torture, because in the 18th century a man named John Darby went to see a witch at a séance and she told him this garbage and it was brought into the church because nobody wants to face the truth, the church pews would be empty if the preachers told the truth of the tribulation that awaits those who follow the Savior. I will pray for each and every one of you. Those who have eyes will see and those who have ears will hear. And this goes for the rest of the hateful comments that I am about to approve. I will pray God will open your eyes to the deception of satan. But I will not respond again, I will however let your comments be seen at what they are, hateful drivel!


  41. There are so many reasons to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture, and not a post trib. I could explain them all, but I would rather point you towards a bible study teacher (who goes through the whole bible, not just the tribulation. He taught for 40+ years and still teaches now in his 80’s). The man’s name is Les Feldick, and I highly suggest you listen to his studies and support his ministry.

    He explains during his tribulation part exactly why there is a pre-tribulation rapture. He goes from Matthew being directed entirely towards the Jew, to Paul being the gentile apostle (not the Jewish apostle) and the only one to speak of the rapture (suggesting and backing the pre-trib theory for non-Jews), to explaining the Bible’s references of how harvesting grain works, and the scriptures relations to the harvest of grain and the harvest of his church. He goes into extreme depth on all of that and compares scripture with scripture so there is absolutely no mistaking once you come to the understanding of what the bible is really saying.

    God Bless.


    • I do appreciate all comments but I will not follow something that is interpretation and not Biblical. At least prepare for what’s coming.


      • Yes! The ancient pre-Nicene Church NEVER taught any pre-tribulation “rapture”. Many of the earliest of those ancient Christians were conversant with the Apostles. Our LORD JESUS never taught a pre-tribulation “rapture”, but rather,” immediately after the tribulation of those days”….. would come the RESURRECTION of the dead in CHRIST and then in the wink of an eye the “catching-up of the remaining ones in CHRIST who have not died, to ALL meet together in the air and to be with HIM+ from that point on. We must ask for Divine strength and prepare our hearts to stand for our LORD JESUS CHRIST in the face of those who hate HIM+ and HIS+ GOSPEL. HE+ is with us in the Power of the HOLY SPIRIT.
        HE+ has not left us as orphans.


      • Amen Hayden!! He is with us even unto the end of time!


    • I am always amazed when Jesus and Paul tend to start writing about end times that they preface it by saying, “let no man deceive you,” or “do not be deceived”. And yet I have not come across a pre-tribber who has studied to show themselves approved rightly dividing the Word of truth. They ALWAYS refer to someone else, some man… be careful that no man deceive you! If your going to battle to defend your position a least you should be wearing your own armor. David wouldn’t wear Saul’s in battle because it was untested.

      2 Peter 3:10 makes it clear that a catastrophic event will destroy the heaven and the earth at the time of Jesus coming, “a thief in the night”. There will be no 7 years afterward. This parallels Matt. 24:29-34. Jesus promises that the earth would pass away at that time at the time of His coming.

      2 Peter 3:16 goes on to say that those who teach differently twist the scripture as they always do! Wake up!



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Rev. 22:20 'Surely I am coming quickly, Amen. Even so, come Lord Jesus!'

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